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MMORPGS: Story ideas? Christian Elements?

Started by January 15, 2004 03:38 AM
152 comments, last by GottaBeKD 20 years, 7 months ago
quote: Christians suck, stop necroing dead threads.


Athiests suck. We have a right to contribute solicited ideas.

EDIT: Added quote for context.

Before this degenerates into a flame fest, I would like to say that this young man came here to ask for ideas. If someone doesn't like the idea that Christians are going to be making games with Christian principles then they need to shell out the cash to start their own site where they can ban Christians, or at least delete their topics.

We have seen indie games that have blatantly attacked thiesm (Jenny's Quest comes to mind, for those familiar with it). We have the right to make games promoting our beliefs, much as you have the right to choose not to download/purchase them.

Now let's get back to the constructive input before this topic is locked.

[edited by - dwmitch on May 3, 2004 5:05:38 AM]

[edited by - dwmitch on May 3, 2004 5:06:58 AM]
300 In the land of the proud and freeyou can sell your soul and your dignityfor fifteen minutes on tvhere in Babylon.
I think spiritual warfare would make an excellent game... just not from a Christian's perspective. It could be Angels against Demons. You could create your own setting, and although the Angels would have to win overall, they could lose some battles. If done right, this could be an excellent good vs. evil RPG. If not, yet another horrible Christian game.

It might offend non-Christians, though.

[edit] Sorry, I didn't see this was already done.

This would also eliminate PvP from the game unless you also allow them to play as Demons (I wouldn't).

For powers, try looking at different Angels described in the Bible. (Angel of Death from 10 plagues, firey Angels guarding Garden of Eden, etc.) Also, Revelations would be a really good source.

For the setting, Earth and Hell could work (not Heaven; Demons couldn't go there) Maybe not Hell, but Earth from an Angel's perspective. I have no idea what that would entail.

[edited by - nagromo on May 3, 2004 12:24:50 PM]
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quote: Original post by dwmitch
quote: Christians suck, stop necroing dead threads.


Athiests suck. We have a right to contribute solicited ideas.

False dichotomies suck. Go Shinto!

This thread is seriously necroed, though. I remember it from a ways back, and it''s too big to expect people to read all the posts just to better understand these new ones. I think it should be locked.

That said, there''s a big difference between Christian imagery, Christian mythology and Christian content. Most of the ideas here appeal to the former two concepts. Fiery swords, infernal armies, paladins, warrior priests, clerics with axes crushing the spines of many-legged lizards, and great horned monstrosities writhing in purifying light are not particularly Christian concepts.

A real Christian game would probably be more like the Islamic idea of the "greater jihad". It would look like a dating sim, where you''re thrown into different situations and have to do the right thing in each to further your life as a Christian and bring you closer to Jesus. If you''re really into dating sims, then I guess that would appeal to you, but I prefer to be either building neat structure, exploring the depths of space, or hacking the life out of monsters. But that''s just me.

I''d like to see a game based loosely on the "Silver City" as it''s depicted by Neil Gaiman''s Murder Mysteries . That was sweet. The Angels had a degree of free will, but periodically God would grab hold of them (they called it their "aspect coming upon them") and they would be, for a few moments, implements of divine will. It''s neat, because their wings unfurl, and they radiate brilliant light, and the voice of God speaks through them. Awesome. But at all other times they''re just diligent workers with limited emotional capacities. In that story they were building the universe, so emotions were incomplete, which might account for their strangeness. I just really liked the scene where Raguel, the angel of Vengeance, in questioning another angel and the other guy says "I don''t see how that''s any of your business" and Ragual levitates off the ground, bursts into flames, and thunders, "I am Raguel, who is the Vengeance of the Lord. You will answer my questions." Sweet.

Yeah, so either make a mature Christian game where the objective is to feel bad about sinning and observe the sacraments and live a Christ-like life, or else go balls-out with the awesomeness of God.

A third option can be found in C.S. Lewis''s sci-fi trilogy. Perelandra is a particularly entertaining one. It has a scene where a man is fighting a demon, and partway through the fight, he''s all tired and bleeding and beginning to doubt whether he can win, and all of a sudden he''s flooded with hate. Lewis describes it in a very interesting way, but it''s something to the effect that in that moment, he realized why humans were given the ability to hate. Like a man with a hammer who first sees a nail, or a child with a hatchet when he figures out that there are trees the hatchet was built to cut, he realized that hate was given to men so they could fight evil, and to have an opportunity to feel hate without having to temper it with love for the sinner (love the sinner, hate the sin), he was elated by his hatred and filled with light and energy, and then he proceeded to punch the crap out of the demon. It was sweet.

So you could go that way, applying Christian ideals in a world where love and peace aren''t the purest manifestation of Christianity, so you can teach people about the Christian good while they kung-fu monsters.
I kinda like how one of the newer starwars games did it.... your response dictated if you were walking on the side of good, or the side of evil. So prehaps you could incorporate some sort of alignment attribute....

I don''t see how you can say fiery swords and horned monsters arn''t ''christian concepts''.... both appear in the bible. There was a fiery sword that guarded the tree of life, and daniel dreams about a 10-horned monster that will bring about the apocolypes.

And I wouldn''t recommend doing a christian sim... that would be boreing... but the angel idea seemed pretty cool.

quote: Original post by Cygnus_X
I kinda like how one of the newer starwars games did it.... your response dictated if you were walking on the side of good, or the side of evil. So prehaps you could incorporate some sort of alignment attribute....
But would the player be heavily discouraged from following "the dark side"? If so, then I would consider that poor design.

quote: I don''t see how you can say fiery swords and horned monsters arn''t ''christian concepts''.... both appear in the bible. There was a fiery sword that guarded the tree of life, and daniel dreams about a 10-horned monster that will bring about the apocolypes.
Does playing a game involving angels and demons and fiery swords and such like that help a Christian be a good Christian? Is it central to a Christian''s way of life? I think that that''s what Iron Chef Carnage was getting at.

quote: And I wouldn''t recommend doing a christian sim... that would be boreing... but the angel idea seemed pretty cool.
And would most likely be just imagery and mythology. Which a lot of games have. It''s getting the core concepts of religion into a game that is incredibly difficult to do well.
"We should have a great fewer disputes in the world if words were taken for what they are, the signs of our ideas only, and not for things themselves." - John Locke
quote: Original post by dwmitch
quote: Christians suck, stop necroing dead threads.


Athiests suck. We have a right to contribute solicited ideas.

I didn't say religion sucks, I just said christians do. That doesn't make me un-religious.

The fact still remains that these threads are breeding ground for flame wars, and necroing this thread was possibly the worst thing that could have happened. I'd be happy if this hell were locked.

[edited by - PumpkinPieman on May 3, 2004 3:39:17 PM]
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First, I see no reason why this thread has to be a flame war.... you would think people could be mature enough to talk about religion without resorting to flamming.

Second, legions of angels and weapons of great power typically arn''t encoutered by christians. But, if you were doing a game based in an apocolypic setting.... you could be rather creative. If you base it in a modern setting.... I''m not quite sure what you can do with it. Although, I am reminded of a simpsons episode where bart was playing a game called ''convert the heathens''.... it was kinda funny.

3rd, I plan on incorporating alignment into the MMO I''m buliding. The way I have it set up, if you attack a unit that is significantly weaker than you, you lose alignment (no beating up on the small guys). If you attack a larger opponent, you gain alignment. This (in theory) will also help with bottom feeding. I.e., where experienced players gang up on newbies for easy land. For some units (orcs, etc), a low alignment makes them more powerful. But if your army consists of nothing but low ALI orcs, the people won''t think very highly of you. But for knights, you can''t be promoted to a higher ranking knight if your alignment is too low. And high alignment characters get to use holy weapons, earn the respect of the people, etc. So, there are a few creative outlets for fighting on the side of darkness/light.

quote: Original post by Cygnus_X
First, I see no reason why this thread has to be a flame war.... you would think people could be mature enough to talk about religion without resorting to flamming.


I''d like to think so, I really would. Even I''ve become fired up just reading some of the things people have posted here. But empirical analysis seems to suggest the opposite.

I don''t understand why people on both sides become so violent when their beliefs are attacked. Live and let live. Or is the current society''s creed of tolerance and political correctness not apply when talking about Christians?



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quote: Original post by PumpkinPieman
The fact still remains that these threads are breeding ground for flame wars...
Is that supposed to be a self-fulfilling prophecy? Because until you make your inflammatory comment, the discussion appears to have been quite civil.

How about you leave the moderation to us?
quote: Original post by Cygnus_X
But, if you were doing a game based in an apocolypic setting.... you could be rather creative.
My (rudimentary) understanding is that the sequence of events leading up to and including Armageddon are pretty much set in stone by Scripture. When it gets to that point, the actions of angels and demons are going to be precisely scripted, and the best a human can hope for is to get on God''s good side before the door slams shut. That would entail all the standard Jesus-dating gameplay discussed above.

What we need is a purely fictional system that steals a lot of the imagery from Christianity. I love a good fight between angels and devils, because they''re so perfectly opposed and you don''t have to feel bad about making one completely good and the other completely bad. It''s a great system for a hack & slash game, or even a good RTS, but you can''t actually put Christian content into it. In fact, to make a game that''s remotely entertaining, it would have to be a little blasphemous. Christian video games are like Christian rock--They feature spiritual content instead of high quality within the medium. You could make a game with angel and demons slicing each other up, but Fifty Cent sings songs about God, and nobody accuses him of being a preacher. Context and content are different things.

Angels fighting demons: Good game, bad religion
Actually striving for Christian life: Bad game, good religion

Good luck finding a middle ground there.

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