Wow, I''m seeing some shortsightedness here. Where''s the creative vision, folks? I agree that current Christian games are generally lacking, but there''s no reason they couldn''t be every bit as exciting as contemporary games. It''s a topic I''m very interested in.

However, I don''t think that''s what this post is about. Its about including religious elements in games, and incorporating religious undertones. That''s already been done in a few games, as some have pointed out, but I''d really like to see more.

I cannot accept that religious elements are boring, as many have implied. Some of the most exciting events in history have hinged on religion. I''m sure given a little time to research and ponder, I could come up with a perfectly viable game idea with strong Christian elements. I''ve had plenty of ideas already, of course, but have never taken the time to flesh any of them out.

I still think that a really mature treatment of the struggles that a Christian needs to overcome would be a stone drag. Let''s see if I can come up with a counterexample...

Idea #1: You''re a youth group leader at a church in the inner city, and kids come to your church after school, and you have to come up with programs that will get them to show up, like a basketball court and a big-screen TV, and then you have to balance the program of activities between pure fun activities (pizza, basketball, movies, and magic shows) and the Christian activities (lectures, personal conversations, Veggietales marathons). It would be like those sim games where you have to run a theme park. If you do badly, kids start hanging out with gangs and doing drugs, and if you do well gang members come in and start doing good in the community. After a few years, if you''ve made a positive impact in the community, the parents of the children all chip in and pay for you to go to seminary and become a real priest.

Idea #2: You''re a missionary in some war-torn African country, and you''re trying to convert as many people as you can without being declared a nuisance and summarily executed.

It''s tough. I don''t think you could make a really bitchin'' game with overt Christian content. If you try to tack it on to an action game, it''ll feel like you''ve stuck romantic content into what should have been a straight action movie. It''ll seem contrived, and both the game and the added material will be cheapened.

quote: Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
I still think that a really mature treatment of the struggles that a Christian needs to overcome would be a stone drag.

What''s with everyone here thinking every Christian aspires to be the next Billy Graham or Mother Teresa? Being a good Christian does not require you to be a revivalist, missionary, or priest. Also, why does everyone keep putting our Christian character in real life situations? Most games out there put their characters in anything but "mundane" situations like trying to start a youth group.

I realize not "everyone" did this, but most have. In particular those who think a Christian game is a bad idea. I''ll admit, Serious Sam would have been crap if they added in Christian elements. But, it didn''t really have a plot, either. I think, if done well, adding a "Christian" to an RPG (say, a Final Fantasy) who takes a serious look at what they''re doing. This would be no different than any other character, his being Christian would just be one of his traits. In fact, it might look very much like Cecil in FF4 questioning being a dark knight. This could work with any style of game with a strong plot.

For an MMORPG I think the setting being "Christian" in some way would be the way to go (since there''s no plot). Perhaps an MMORPG taking place in Narnia, for example.

The Narnia Chronicles are C.S. Lewis books, and I earlier suggested putting Christians into a world where the lessons of Christianity are more tangible and literal. I think that the world Lewis begins to develop in Perelandra leaves ample room for gameworlds. He''s got the beginnings of several kingdoms, non-human sentient beings, and a cosmic order to the whole thing that offers infinite potential. It''s a book worth reading.

Plus you could draw from C.S. Lewis'' book The Screwtape Letters for character inspiration.

Yeah.... stuff by C.S. Lewis is a great example..... maybe you could come up with a storyline based off some of his work.

Has anyone read "''Till We Have Faces: A Myth Retold" by Lewis? It''s interesting to this thread because it takes (or I''m told it takes, I''m not overly familiar with Greco-Roman mythology) the myth of Cupid and Psyche, but gives it Christian values. I think it''s a great example of how to make a Christian story without putting a big red "JESUS" sticker on the cover.

And Iron Chef Carnage, I realize you''d mentioned something of the sort before. I was just annoyed that it seems the most common argument against making a Christian game is "Well, you could make a game where you try to convert people, but that would suck, so you shouldn''t make a Christian game".

But you have to admit that the actual conflicts that a Christian deals with in the course of his spiritual growth would not translate well into a popular gametype. Highly stylized manifestations of it, such as Lewis''s or Gaiman''s work would make for good games, but the actual idea of including Christian elements is betrayed by the fictive content.

Any Christian can (hopefully) tell you what it takes to do what they are trying to do, and they can tell you that being unable to do it is a big part of the process. Being a Christian is a long and arduous process, with often intangible rewards. I can''t see a way to convert that challenge effectively into a video game in any popular genre. Trying to sneak it in by way of a secondary character would also be awkward.

Science fiction is probably the best bet.

What about a game where you play a Christian secret agent or something? Of course as an agent there''s a lot of deceit and violence involved.. and there''s a strong subplot (or maybe its the main plot) where the main character is constantly having to come to grips with his job in terms of his faith.. eventually he either leaves the service, or else has some spiritual epiphany where he realizes that what he''s doing is saving lives and is generally "good.."

Or perhaps more interesting is to have this struggle be an active part of the game mechanics.. sort of a Light-Side/Dark-Side type situation. You could make it a really interesting challenge: To stay on the side of "Christianity", you''ve got to carefully assess each situation to find the ideal solution to the problem.. i.e. you might be able to just kill that thug in your way, but is there a way you could diplomacy your way past him? If not, should you just knock him out, or can you do something clever? Of course you need to have some kind of insentive for staying on the right side of the higher law.. perhaps some kind of subtle "spiritual" guidance (i.e. gentle nudgings in the right direction, a faint arrow flashing briefly on the screen, etc).. I dunno, just tossing out ideas.

I definitely agree its very difficult to find the right balance of fun and interesting gameplay, and respectfully implementing Christian elements.

quote: Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
But you have to admit that the actual conflicts that a Christian deals with in the course of his spiritual growth would not translate well into a popular gametype. Highly stylized manifestations of it, such as Lewis''s or Gaiman''s work would make for good games, but the actual idea of including Christian elements is betrayed by the fictive content.

I guess I don''t see the problem. Most of what I read is "hard" Sci Fi and some fantasy. These do not put people in normal situations, but are often able to bring out aspects of a character in a very vibrant way that you don''t see in every day life. In my experience, this does not betray those elements (Christian or otherwise) but enhances our awareness of them. Take "The Hobbit". You learn much more about Bilbo, and hobbits in general, from his fantastic journey than from his little chat with Gandalf at the beginning. I realize this is a little weaker since they''re not human, but only a little since there are people very much like hobbits (in all but height).

quote:
Any Christian can (hopefully) tell you what it takes to do what they are trying to do, and they can tell you that being unable to do it is a big part of the process. Being a Christian is a long and arduous process, with often intangible rewards. I can''t see a way to convert that challenge effectively into a video game in any popular genre. Trying to sneak it in by way of a secondary character would also be awkward.

In an RPG you''re essentially telling a story, so many of the methods used traditional authors should work. Other genres are probably better off sticking the game in a "Christian world". And as for "sneaking it in by way of a secondary character", I meant nothing of the sort. In all this I''ve been trying to advocate the sort of thing Lewis did while writing "The Chronicles of Narnia". He thought "What if there were a world like Narnia? What would it be like? What would God be like there? What would these children do if they somehow entered Narnia?" This makes the idea of somehow "sneaking Christianity in" difficult, as you''re building the story by asking "What would she do?" rather than "How can I make this Christian?"

quote: irbrian
and there''s a strong subplot (or maybe its the main plot) where the main character is constantly having to come to grips with his job in terms of his faith..

I like the idea of a strong subplot better. It would make the game more interesting to non-Christians, since the "main focus" is not Christianity but a plot that may or may not interest them. It would help prevent it from becoming the equivalent of the cheesy Christian music people buy simply because it says "Christian" and not through any merit of the music. I think it also strengthens the idea that Christianity doesn''t require "just an hour every Sunday" but should be ever constant in your life.

quote:
respectfully implementing Christian elements.

I think this is where the real difficulty comes in. I mean, come on, "Jesus Dating Sim"? Sure, it could be a fun game, but is it really getting the point across?