quote:
The other eleven months celebrate "White History." You don''t think people forcibly displaced (not migrated) and disconnected from their ancestry don''t deserve a month to celebrate their (new) history, especially in the light of all the years of subjugation?

In all honesty, most "African-Americans" are barely African at all. Not only that, but the way "African History" is taught implies that there was one "African" culture. Not true!! There''s a whole continent full of people belonging to different groups and tribes, even with markedly different physical characteristics from one another, and then you mean to imply that there''s one culture? Far from it!! This is stereotyping in the extreme - in the name of political correctness.

Also, the argument that we spend the rest of the year studying "white history" bothers me. Is that why, in World History, we spent more time on China than on any other empire or culture? Is it why we spent a little time on the Renaissance, and that was our only Eurpoean history? Is that why, in US I, we spent months talking about slavery from the viewpoint of the slave, and skipped the military history of the Civil War to do that? No!! We study the cultures of all people all the time! I cannot stand how we have to draw lines between "black history" and "white history." Haven''t whites and blacks interacted substantially for the last two centuries?

quote:
Religion is religion. Culture is culture. Know the difference.

That is DEFINATELY not true. Religion and culture are very closely linked. They are less closely tied together in the United States, but, for most of history and in the rest of the world, they are very intertwined. The behavior of ultra-conservative Muslims (wearing veils, avoiding art and television, preventing females from going outside except out of utter necessity) is certaily both a cultural and religious phenomenon (even if it isn''t really following the teachings of Mohammed). The culture of Europe in the Middle Ages was similarly impacted heavily by Christianity. There is no dark line between religion and culture.


Another thing: Females do seem to be represented in games. The problem? Their clothing (or lack thereof). I don''t have a problem with having attractive leads (how many successful ugly actresses are there? And do you really want to spend time controlling an ugly person?); I DO have a problem with NakedChick fighting monsters with a sword. I dunno about you, but fighting in a bikini - let alone fighting without armor - seems kind of absurd to me!!

Which leads me to my final point: Use whatever character makes the most sense. If your story is about a knight who rescues a princess from a dragon in a castle, chances are that knight should be a western-European male in armor. Likewise, a samurai should be a Japanese male with a katana. If you''re doing a strategy game about the Hundred Years War, then chances are your hero should be a French female named Jean d''Arc! But aside from obvious examples like those, just use whatever you want, and whatever you think fits the story and the culture presented in it the best.

quote: Original post by TerranFury

Which leads me to my final point: Use whatever character makes the most sense.

Personally i agree, but sometimes the bikini-babe is simply more marketable (Tomb Raider 1-5, or was it 7?). And if i am in a position where i have to make a commercial deceision about something like that, I´m afraid I´m going to have to go with the bikini-babe (if marketing says it will sell better).
Given a choice, I absolutely agree with the above.

And the rest: could we get this thing back on topic please? I think it´s slowly towards "why my skin color is better than your skin color" (no offense intended, but many of the last posts didnt have much to do with gd either).

This thread appears to be going off-topic and is in danger of being closed.

This discussion needs to be limited to game design issues. If it continues into a broader socio-political territory, it will be closed.





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Just waiting for the mothership...

Dauntless I did not accuse you of any such thing. I said that if you''re not gay don''t speak for them. With respect to Wavinator''s concern I will not post this thread again unless it returns to a more Game-orientated discussion.


- God created the world in seven days? I think I can one-up him!

quote: Original post by Wavinator
This discussion needs to be limited to game design issues. If it continues into a broader socio-political territory, it will be closed.

This discussion started out as something in socio-political territory, pretending to be a game design related issue. I mean really, either the original poster knew he was going to start this, or he is really dumb in not thinking it would...

What''s worse, someone who''s racist and likes it, or someone who''s racist and doesn''t realize it?

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
What''s worse, someone who''s racist and likes it, or someone who''s racist and doesn''t realize it?

Someone who is racist and likes it is definitely worse. Someone who doesn''t realize it is ignorant, and although they still deserve to be slapped around, they really don''t know any better. Of course, if it is pointed out to them that they are racist, and they deny it, then they are no longer ignorant, but in denial. That is somewhere in-between.

YEASH... This topic brought forth enough attention...
So I''m going to add in my thoughts also...
I think one of the most important reason for the main lead is white or asian is because the teams that usually put the game together relate the most to that....
The fact that the developement team wants the main character to
relate to them in some way... I''m not just saying to relate by skin color... but comon things also... usually when people draw characters, heroes or whatnot, they are going to make a character they like. They usually make him/her someone they can relate(wish to be like) to or look like.

I found this thread very interesting at first, it made a few good points. It''s unfortunate that after a few days, it''s basically turned into what I feared it would, a racial conflict between the posters, instead of a valid discussion about non-white characters in games.

That said, I think minority characters will become more promenient as more minority developers get into the industry. Asian and White characters are most prominent because the majority of game developers are either asian or white. Most RPGs and multiplayer action games give you the option to create\play as characters of different races, but in single player games, black and hispanic lead characters seem to be few and far between.

Something else to consider is whether or not you want black characters, or black themed games. Would Half-Life or Unreal with a black main character be good enough, or do people want to see Blaxploitation games that deal with racial and cultural issues as well as including minority characters? That said, could the game industry represent this in a responsible manner? Personally I would like to see a push toward more politically concious games, but who knows when an if this will happen.

I happen to think that a social concern is a very valid point in game design issues. All the more so with the recent events.

I don''t think it''s denigrated into a racial bias war, as these things need to be discussed. I think it could have been put into the Lounge forum, but I think it also has a valid place here. Afterall, this is one of the most basic things you have to think about when designing a game...how it will appeal to the majority of players.

To ignore social and racial issues is simply burying your head in the sand and not looking at reality. Maybe because I''m of mixed race, I''m a little more cognizant of such issues. As Oluseyi said, deep down, everything is a racial/cultural issue. We may not be aware of it on a conscious level, but it''s there. For anyone that thinks it isn''t, I offer a challenge to place yourself into a situation where you are surrounded by people not of your race and culture to understand. That''s not to say that those other people won''t like you, or not accept you for your differences....but only until you have been in a situation where you are the outsider do you not take such things for granted. So trust me, chosing the race, looks, culture and religion of the protagonist is a VERY valid design issue....it just happens that the vast majority of gamers are whie or asian males, so designers make their protagonists the same.

If the worry is that this has become a racial issue, again, I don''t think we should bury our heads in the sand and hope it "goes away". By discussing these issues, we become aware of the circumstances that may or may not let a player want to play the game.

But, I''m just a lowly poster if the moderator feels this thread is off-topic, then it''s his choice to close it.