Wow, you agreeing with me... isnt that a sign of the appocolypse? skill points are sort of nice as you get them when you level up and you can piss them away on anything but you can max out skills and i dont like that at all. your character should not be able to max out anything as it makes them to much a god. i mean come on, a character with 999 strenth.... thats the kind of power that would kill a final boss with a counter attack.
I think we can agree on the lv of the armor. That was done in secret of mana with weapons but why not make it so the levels not only infuence your proficiency but also open up new attack types.
Allow the flaming to begin
Conshape Electronic Arts
OUR Doc - The future of RPGs
You need to see my "skill based training" part in the doc. Once you read that, I think it sums up quite nicely what needs to be said...
"What''s with statistics? When swordplay becomes swimming"
Nuff said
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
"What''s with statistics? When swordplay becomes swimming"
Nuff said
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
I''m not sure what you''re trying to say here, but I understood it as "scaling armour effectiveness with skill".
I think there''s a big problem with that: a lot of armour does not require any skill to be effective. Body armour is just there. A shield DOES require skill, ''cause you have to move it in the way of something.
Now, abstracting it: why does a shield require skill but chest plate doesn''t?
You can block something with a shield.
What''s blocking? Moving that specific thing in the way of an attack. Or, turning it around, directing an attack onto a certain part of your armour. Now, you could say that if you don''t move out of the way of a body shot, you''ve "directed" the attack to your body. How good you are at directing is skill-based. How well you know how good the armour is is knowledge based.
So lets say you know that blocking a strike with your shield will be more effective than the strike hitting your body. What do you try to do? Get the attack to hit your shield instead of your body...
If it fails, you still have body armour, if it succeeds, you''ll take less damage, in a different location.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
I think there''s a big problem with that: a lot of armour does not require any skill to be effective. Body armour is just there. A shield DOES require skill, ''cause you have to move it in the way of something.
Now, abstracting it: why does a shield require skill but chest plate doesn''t?
You can block something with a shield.
What''s blocking? Moving that specific thing in the way of an attack. Or, turning it around, directing an attack onto a certain part of your armour. Now, you could say that if you don''t move out of the way of a body shot, you''ve "directed" the attack to your body. How good you are at directing is skill-based. How well you know how good the armour is is knowledge based.
So lets say you know that blocking a strike with your shield will be more effective than the strike hitting your body. What do you try to do? Get the attack to hit your shield instead of your body...
If it fails, you still have body armour, if it succeeds, you''ll take less damage, in a different location.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
You are forgetting some thoughts here MKV. Body armour can be more effective if you learn about it. Learn where the weak spots are and protect them furiously? You could dodge into a blow to make sure that it only hits you where you want it to. This can be a reason for learning body armour. You would also need to learn the most effective ways of wearing it... It can''t be that easy to jump around in a breast plate, but easier than full plate mail. You would learn to be one with your armour rather than it just being a tool. Get the point?
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
A truly well trained warrior goes through one set of equipment because they learn the strengths and weaknesses of that equipment. as drawfsoft pointed out, you need to learn these things. your not very good if you have to keep buying new armor and weapons because you keep breaking them. this is the point of the skill level on equipment. basically it makes the player more or a specialist in thier fighting sytyle (which includes deffense in a big way). in real life, it is not as simple as put it on and have it work. you will always want to aviod a hit but when that is not possible, you will want to take the hit in a fassion that will amke the best use of your equipment and deffesive skills.
Allow the flaming to begin
Conshape Electronic Arts
Allow the flaming to begin
Conshape Electronic Arts
I still completely disagree.
The effectiveness of armour in a particular location does not change with how well you know that armour. Armour is an entirely passive thing, very unlike weapons, which have to be actively employed to do what they want to do.
I''m NOT saying that learning about your armour won''t do any good, and if you had read my message properly, you would have seen that. I think you''re both a bit caught up in the idea of having armour skills to read what I was trying to say:
~ it is not armour skill that improves your defensive ability when wearing armour, it is the skill in your fighting style, and how well you have matched your armour to it. Sword-and-shield fighting style is highly different to twin-war-axe. The effectiveness of the shield here does not depend on how much you know about your shield, it depends on how good you are at fighting with a shield and a single weapon.
Wearing light armour makes you more maneuverable than wearing heavy armour. You don''t have to be a rocket scientist to know that the heavy armour will be more passively protective than the light, but unless your fighting style accomodates heavy armour ( for instance, a heavy horse lancer ), you might be encumbred in your ability to perform the fight.
In fact, I''d apply this to weapons as well. You say "I''m very good at using a sword!". I''d say "As what, a feather duster?".
You train a fighting style, not a weapon skill.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
The effectiveness of armour in a particular location does not change with how well you know that armour. Armour is an entirely passive thing, very unlike weapons, which have to be actively employed to do what they want to do.
I''m NOT saying that learning about your armour won''t do any good, and if you had read my message properly, you would have seen that. I think you''re both a bit caught up in the idea of having armour skills to read what I was trying to say:
~ it is not armour skill that improves your defensive ability when wearing armour, it is the skill in your fighting style, and how well you have matched your armour to it. Sword-and-shield fighting style is highly different to twin-war-axe. The effectiveness of the shield here does not depend on how much you know about your shield, it depends on how good you are at fighting with a shield and a single weapon.
Wearing light armour makes you more maneuverable than wearing heavy armour. You don''t have to be a rocket scientist to know that the heavy armour will be more passively protective than the light, but unless your fighting style accomodates heavy armour ( for instance, a heavy horse lancer ), you might be encumbred in your ability to perform the fight.
In fact, I''d apply this to weapons as well. You say "I''m very good at using a sword!". I''d say "As what, a feather duster?".
You train a fighting style, not a weapon skill.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
Yes. there are lots of realavent points there. but maybe armour skills dont nessisarily need to be used for deffense but more over your evade rate and armour breaking deffense. certain armour is impervious obviously but i still think it should be possible for smaller, lighter peices to be as strong when properly used. Say your character uses a pair of knives as their weapon. knife fighting requires speed and agility more over power and mass beat down. a character like this is not really able to equip a big massive platemail as it would kill their agility. the ability to make your armour skills change would mean that a character equiped with a weaker armour would be a little more concience of where to get hit if a hit is not avoidable. say you get hit in the shoulder by an arrow. if you saw it coming, that character might tilt his or her shoulder to prevent the arrow from doing damage. but if they dont know their armour very well they might totally neglect that arrow and it could penetrate a weak point in the armour. Mainly, this skill system regards how to move to make the weapons skip off your armour instead of penetrating them. knowing the weak points would save money and HP as you would likely not have to replace the equipment.
Allow the flaming to begin
Conshape Electronic Arts
Allow the flaming to begin
Conshape Electronic Arts
I think armor skills shouldn''t improve defence. Instead, a good armor skill should allow you to:
-Jussi
"orange yellow tangerine
the acid queen
in a psychedelic scene"
- Ayreon
- Take better care of your armor
- Make simple repairs
- Appraise armor you have found or when buying
- Dress/undress it faster
- Decrease the agility penalty and fatigue from wearing the armor
-Jussi
"orange yellow tangerine
the acid queen
in a psychedelic scene"
- Ayreon
There is only armour knowledge, no armour skill. There is only fighting skill in a particular style. Knowing a lot about armour makes you a better fighter - even if you do not know how to fight when wearing it. Knowing someone else''s weak spots etc.
Having "armour skill" complicates matters too much.
If you have a HUGE plate armour skill, you still shouldn''t be able to do a fast scouting run on a light war horse.
There is no skill involved once something hits you somewhere, the armour just does its thing. The skill is involved with getting that something to hit you in a place you know, or think, it won''t hurt.
At least, that''s my take.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
Having "armour skill" complicates matters too much.
If you have a HUGE plate armour skill, you still shouldn''t be able to do a fast scouting run on a light war horse.
There is no skill involved once something hits you somewhere, the armour just does its thing. The skill is involved with getting that something to hit you in a place you know, or think, it won''t hurt.
At least, that''s my take.
People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~
It's only funny 'till someone gets hurt.And then it's just hilarious.Unless it's you.
Can knowledge be considered like a skill ? I know several game system that do so. I know they are two different things, but can't you handle them in the same way ?
After all, your knowledge of armor increases with the time you spend using it... So having an armor skill could allow to represent this.
Edited by - DungeonMaster on October 13, 2000 12:10:25 PM
After all, your knowledge of armor increases with the time you spend using it... So having an armor skill could allow to represent this.
Edited by - DungeonMaster on October 13, 2000 12:10:25 PM
------------------"Between the time when the oceans drank Atlantis and the rise of the sons of Arius there was an age undreamed of..."
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