quote: Original post by dwarfsoft

FE - isn''t it so weird that I am now agreeing with you so much? *wimper*

Admit it, you have fallen in love!

Seriously (what''s that?), I agree with you also. Though if you haven''t ever used eg. a soft leather armor, it should still hinder you less than the full plate mail you have used for 10 years. But this is all about tweaking the variables.

-Jussi

"We don''t need no education.
We don''t need no thought control."
- Pink Floyd

Then armour should also hold a value such as ''degree of hinderance'' and basically, if you know how to use the armour better, it decreases the hinderance

PS. I do not love FE. That is just sick! I only love Nazrix, but Shhhhhh... Don''t tell anyone

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

ahhhh. I am SOO offended. i thought we struck a nerve dwarfy.

In any event. true, a smaller and lighter peice will obviously remain easier to fight in even years down the road. although, one could also argue that as you continue training with one peice for long enough, you become strong enough that it is no longer an issue in your fighting style. this might not work real well with big hulking plate mail (which i see as a little more than useless)though as it would hamper certain stats to a degree.
I like it when people agree with me. thank you dwarfy.

Allow the flaming to begin
Conshape Electronic Arts

quote: Original post by Fantasy Edge

although, one could also argue that as you continue training with one peice for long enough, you become strong enough that it is no longer an issue in your fighting style.

If you become stronger, all armor hampers you less, not just the one you have trained with, so the point doesn''t apply. This brings another point, though: you should gain "experience points" to your strength when you are fatigued. These experience points (and character strength) could even be location based, so you could have weak arms but very strong legs (for running away, of course , which isn''t possible in any RPG system I have seen.

-Jussi

"Come on, now.
I hear you''re feeling down.
Well I can ease your pain,
Get you on your feet again."
- Pink Floyd

Grmm, lets think about it, and how to best represent it...

What does armour do?
1. It can deflect attacks
2. It can divert some of the force of an incoming attack
3. It can weigh you down
4. It can hamper your movements
(if I''ve missed any, please comment)

I think perhaps 1 and 2 can be grouped, as well as 3 and 4.
So you have
1. It can divert some damage.
2. It can get in your way.

Note that 1 is only of use in combat situations [note: this is debateable, perhaps a good idea to challenge this notion] - so it applies when you are fighting. 2 is in force as long as you''ve got the damn stuff on.

This also means that armour is differentiated only by these two things: How much damage does it divert, and how much does it get in the way.

Then - trying to apply knowledge and/or skill to these.
Does knowing about your armour help with how much it gets in your way? I''m not sure, I''m trying to see ways it could, but I don''t think it does. Nomatter how much you know about your full plate, it''ll still be a tin can you''re sitting in. Note that this does NOT mean that you can''t get better at fighting in it, because you''ll learn the mobilities of the armour instead.

Thinking about it... perhaps that IS a way in which the armour becomes less of a hindrance. Once you know how you can move in it, you adjust your way of wearing it, so it gets in the way less ( though it''s just as annoying, you''ve just learned to deal with it. )

And then this could apply to 1. as well.


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

Different armours are more noisy than others, and one must learn to move in it as quietly as possible. And of course, different armours are good against some weapons where as other armours are not as good.

OK, I just read through most of the DOC, and I agree with most all of it or have an unbiased opinion regarding the aspects that don''t interest me.

One part that does interest me is character health. Depending how realistic you wish to get, here are some things to consider.

Altitude: If you are roaming all around the countryside, riding your horse up and over a high mountain pass, or for that matter taking your flying carpet up there, you are going to have diminished performance. Altitude sickness may set in, including weakness, exhaustion, no morale, nausea and vomiting. Your performance level can be dropped in half. Consider this when fighting a native of this high altitude envirionment. Exercise and sleeping at altitude for a couple of days at least will be required to bring your performance level up. If your performance level does not go up, chances are you''re getting pulmonary edema, resulting in coughing up blood, fluid filling the lungs, and incerased exhaustion. If you contract this, there''s a 33% chance (statistics demonstrate) that you will die. Even worse is cerenbral edema.

OK, now regarding temperature and its effects on the body. Low temperatures and inadequate protection for the feet will almost surely result in frostbite, which will likely result in you toes coming off. Bad for walking! Fingers can come off to. Falling in near freezing water and not regaining body temperature quickly can result in hypothermia.

Cuts and infection: I''m not as informed regarding this, but this can''t be good. Especially from rusty blades.

And what about plagues?

GREAT! Illness! This is something that has not been really covered in any RPG that I have ever seen. These kinds of things can be used to slow the character down, as you shouldn''t really be killing them for something so out of their control (or should you? This is for you MKV or LF ).

As for you MKV, with you armour knowledge you can understand what movements will be less hindered by armour and then you more efficiently move around your enemy. This is something that I don''t thik that you have considered. Also, knowing about the armours weak spots can help you to avoid getting hit there (as we said before) which comes down to knowledge and training.

What I am thinking now is that you can learn how your armour works and how to use it. Your body is shaped into the armour much as your armour is shaped to your body. When you change armour, you go through your learning process once again with the new vest. As you learn from other armour you start losing your abilities in your current armour. This way when you come back to that armour, you will have knowledge on how to use it, but you will be less shaped to the armour. The more you leave it, the more different you become...

This idea came from the growing of Thomas and Ashen-Shugar and the Dragon Armour (Raymond E. Feist - Magician).

Therefore you have two attributes:

1. Knowledge - which helps with understanding your lessons and as your memory is strong, you don''t forget the lessons.
   
2. Ability - which is due to your bodies aptness to combine with the armour. This way you can grow together with your armour, or grow appart.

FE - Sure we hit a nerve, but we are just friends right? Thats all I want, nothing more

-Chris Bennett of Dwarfsoft - Site:"The Philosophers' Stone of Programming Alchemy" - IOL
The future of RPGs - Thanks to all the goblins over in our little Game Design Corner niche
          

Someone just explained the DnD 3rd edition rules to me, and they do exactly what I was trying to explain:
nomatter how little you know about an armour, the AC bonus you get is always the same. However, the encumbrance of the armour is almost unbearable if you haven''t learned about it.

I reckon that "dodging blows" should be a skill - one that DOES depend on the knowledge of your armour.

So in the end, I think we''ve kindof reached agreement. There is some element of "skill" involved when you''re doing anything in armour - and I think that should read "skills" applied to "armour knowledge", while you think it should be called "armour skill", but it''s more or less the same thing.

People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.
~ (V)^|) |<é!t|-| ~

What''s that stupid doc anyway? It was not found when I tried to read it. Besides you people sound like morons when you''re talking about more realistic approach without thinking how it affects to the gameplay. Say, if you get realistic cuts and start to bleed, the gameplay would turn into a nightmare.