quote: Original post by MillaTime
Hell, even now a parent could set up a net-cam in their sons room, facing the TV, and periodically monitor what they're watching/playing from afar. Or even take a vital cord that connects the TV to work.

This might work... assuming all parents actually give a shit what their kids are doing while they are gone.

quote:
And I believe Zao pointed out that not all parents are responsible people...and so when the child shoots up a school, then who gets blamed? Not the irresponsible parents, the presenters of an idea.

Kids get shot in our schools, and your worrying about who gets blamed? The fact of the matter is that it needs to be stopped regardless of who takes responsibility.

And how many times do I have to go over this? I agree with you that parents are at fault, but since not all parents are responsible, how can we trust them to teach their children right from wrong and make sure that they dont play inappropriate games? WE CANT. Therefore we gotta learn to compromise... and if that means making games that are a little less violent and actually try not to glorify killing, then so be it. I think we both agree that there are violent games that are fun, and there are non-violent games that are fun. And you still havent answered my original question:

Why add more to the never ending list of violent games when you can create something just as fun, that can have a positive effect on our youth?

quote:
Or go do what one of you has and start protesting in DC, whatever it takes to get you away from your computers and post crap like this.

If you didnt want people to respond about your idea, then why did you post it?

I dont know if your aware of this, but thats the whole purpose behind this forum. You cant just post an idea and expect everyone to agree with it. If that were the case, then posting your ideas would be obsolete.

quote:
Honestly I'm surprised that you people would join a game making forum when you believe that games are to blame for society's flaws...

I dont blame games for societies flaws...

I blame the ignorant masses who believe everything they see and hear.

I blame the liberals who worry about "saving face" instead of doing whats really good for the people.

And most of all I blame the naive idiots who think even for a second that everything is "alright" or that "our crime rate is going down".

Yes murder and rape is going down... but guess what? Every other crime is on the rise. And the small crimes is where it begins.


[edited by - Zao Martyr on August 3, 2003 9:34:12 AM]

quote: Original post by Zao Martyr
Kids get shot in our schools, and your worrying about who gets blamed? The fact of the matter is that it needs to be stopped regardless of who takes responsibility.

I''m not worrying about who gets blamed. I''m pointing out that time is wasted by blaming the media. Rather than pressing for new laws restricting the media, we need to increase time spent with kids. Increase the awareness that violence is a problem and is not the answer. We need to reach out to the kids, instead of allowing games to.

quote: ...we gotta learn to compromise... and if that means making games that are a little less violent and actually try not to glorify killing, then so be it.

I disagree, ideas should not be regulated due to the effects upon its audience. If so, we wouldn''t have Shakespeare, Edgar Allen Poe, or other great works. Granted, we haven''t heard of any terrorist bombings due to some 15th century writer, but like you''ve said, people are affected by it one way or another.

quote: And you still havent answered my original question:

Why add more to the never ending list of violent games when you can create something just as fun, that can have a positive effect on our youth?

Why not? Why not do both, if the ideas are there. Indeed, i have many other ideas for games that don''t involve killing of any kind. But I''m not about to throw this idea away simply because it pushes the boundary a little.

quote: I dont blame games for societies flaws...

I blame the ignorant masses who believe everything they see and hear.

I blame the liberals who worry about "saving face" instead of doing whats really good for the people.

And most of all I blame the naive idiots who think even for a second that everything is "alright" or that "our crime rate is going down".

Yes murder and rape is going down... but guess what? Every other crime is on the rise. And the small crimes is where it begins.

You call me a "naive idiot" for thinking "everything is alright". I don''t think everything is alright. I don''t think that violence outside of a picture-displaying box is alright. But I do think that expressing your ideas is alright. And I don''t think that regulating them to a stiff degree is alright.



DON''T COPY THAT FLOPPY!

The view that games are accountable for violence in this country is extremely short-sighted. I believe it is human nature for many people to see out the slightly twisted things, whether it be real life, games, books, or movies. We can all go and do the "right" thing in real life....we want to do something different in our escapes. A normal person will be able to tell the real from the fake. To say that games are a major factor in people going and shooting up a school ignores the fact that if we deprived these *already unstable* people of the media from which they may have gotten their motivation, they would simply turn somewhere else to get their fix of the unreal. Today we watch movies, play games, read books....in the 1800s they read books, told stories and went hunting. There have always been escapes, and there are always going to be. There have always been people who have acted on their experiences they''ve have through there escapes, and there always will be. To say that a form a media is responsible for the "pollution" of a society is utterly ridiculous.



VSEDebug Visual Studio.NET Add-In. Enhances debugging in ways never thought possible.

A couple of months ago, two kids 14 years old, was playing a role playing game. They walked around in our little town(30000 citizens) and saw this guy taking a walk with his dog. They attacked him, hitting him 5 times in the stomach. And these kids where on pills. The man survived...

Anyways, I don''t think violent games are to any danger to normal people that DONT take drugs. However I think that people taking drugs and playing violent games can become very dangerous. And we all know that ALOT of ppl are using drugs today...

So I don''t think this game would be worth doing. And I don''t think it would become any fun, as the fun is taken away by legalize the killing. For example in HalfLife you killed those barnies because it wasn''t the point and that made it fun. However if it would have been the point, well then it wouldnt be more fun than killing the other guys/monsters in the game..

oh, and they hit him with an axe!

Man this is getting out of hand...

You people really should get a grip of yourselves. Everygame is given a rating for a reason - but as said before you have to remember that every game is just that - a game. fiction. nothing more. Games are a way of releiving stress and the like, so who cares if it involves killing a person. I personally enjoy seeing a persons head dissapear in a cloud of blood in Unreal Tournament. And dont lecture me on the humanity of this, i am not a violent person in any way. Neither is my father who suffers from Bipolar-disorder (Mental Illness) who plays these games too.

Violence has been around for a lot longer than any of you (or me) AND IT WONT GO AWAY. I hate bringing up this point, but look at the freaking situation between the Palistinians and the Jews - they sign a peace treaty, then a few seconds later start killing each other because they wont release prisoners.

Oh, and im sorry about your precious America - who''s to say that old George sitting on his ass in the white house isn''t a terrorist? A terrorist is a person who invokes terror into others. And im sure he enjoyed doing that to the innocent people that got slaughtered over in iraq, and soon to be north korea. After NK it will go to somewhere else. Do I care? No i dont. (Hey bush - i have the means of making an effective Dirty Bomb in my backyard and the means of delivering it too - what are you going to do about it?) Sorry getting a little off the track.

My little brother (8 years old) watches horror movies and plays violent games but he is a very peaceful and calm kid, and helps people when ever he can. And i''m sorry to those that think violence in games will end. 99% of games are sold purely on the basis that are a violent and look realistic. The great thing about 3d games like Half-Life etc. is that you can take a photo of the face of anyone you want and texture map it to a models face - then blow him or her up to your hearts content in beautiful 3D on your monitor.

Now if you excuse me all this talk about violence makes me want to run other some pathetic padestrians in Carmageddon. Then after that, just to please you sadistic people I might do the same in real life for the hell of it.

Adios.

Sorry I would have made my response sooner but I didnt have internet access (I was moving)

quote: Original post by MillaTime
...I'm pointing out that time is wasted by blaming the media. Rather than pressing for new laws restricting the media, we need to increase time spent with kids. Increase the awareness that violence is a problem and is not the answer. We need to reach out to the kids, instead of allowing games to...

Laws and restrictions!? I dont know who taught you how to read but they didnt do a very good job. I NEVER EVER said that laws and restrictions are gonna solve anything! In fact, I even pointed out that it is impossible to rely on laws and restrictions to prevent our kids from getting a hold of violent games!

You say we need to increase awareness that violence is a problem yet your trying to add to the endless list of games that glorify violence. Your contradicting yourself!!

quote: Original Post by MillaTime

quote: Original Post by Zao Martyr
And you still havent answered my original question:

Why add more to the never ending list of violent games when you can create something just as fun, that can have a positive effect on our youth?

Why not? Why not do both, if the ideas are there. Indeed, i have many other ideas for games that don't involve killing of any kind. But I'm not about to throw this idea away simply because it pushes the boundary a little.

You cant answer a question with another question!... Yet again youve managed to pussy-foot around my original query.

I bet the reason you cant answer my question is becuase you simply haven't put any thought into it.

quote: Original Post by MillaTime

quote: Original Post by Zao Martyr I dont blame games for societies flaws...

I blame the ignorant masses who believe everything they see and hear.

I blame the liberals who worry about "saving face" instead of doing whats really good for the people.

And most of all I blame the naive idiots who think even for a second that everything is "alright" or that "our crime rate is going down".

Yes murder and rape is going down... but guess what? Every other crime is on the rise. And the small crimes is where it begins.

You call me a "naive idiot" for thinking "everything is alright". I don't think everything is alright. I don't think that violence outside of a picture-displaying box is alright. But I do think that expressing your ideas is alright. And I don't think that regulating them to a stiff degree is alright.

I didnt call you anything...

You can draw your own conclusions, but dont go putting words into my mouth (Youve done enough of that already).

quote: Original Post by CpMan The view that games are accountable for violence in this country is extremely short-sighted.

No, the view that you think that my view is that games are accountable for violence in this country is whats really short-sided.

quote: Original Post by Exorcist
And dont lecture me on the humanity of this, i am not a violent person in any way. Neither is my father who suffers from Bipolar-disorder (Mental Illness) who plays these games too.

Wow your real intelligent. Since EVERYONE in the whole world is exactly like you and your bipolar father, I guess we dont have to worry about violent games.


CONCLUSION

First of all, you people need to learn how to read.

Everybody thinks for some odd reason that I support strict rules and regulations that would limit our freedoms. NEVER EVER have I said anything like that.

All I posted was a simple question (which remains unanswered) and everyone just flamed and stereotyped me as some conservative hard-core christian...

Maybe you guys just cant read english very well? Or maybe some of you are very slow and cant comprehend or answer logical questions. Or maybe some of you may have not had a proper 1st grade education...

In any case... shame on you people for being so ignorant.

Its one thing to be wrong, but its another thing to make up false statements so that you "appear" to be right.

No where did I say that games are the root of all problems in our society.

I never said that regulation was the answer.

I never said that we should rip all the violent games off the shelf.

I never even said that we should stop ALL production of any game with violence in it.

quote: Original post by Zao Martyr
Why add more to the never ending list of violent games when you can create something just as fun, that can have a positive effect on our youth?

Im asking for the last time. If there are any legally sane individuals who are reasonably proficient in the english language, please take a crack at my question!

[edited by - Zao Martyr on August 7, 2003 5:07:29 PM]

Okay, Zao, I ain''t readin what you just wrote, because basically it''s too long, and it''s not gonna convince me at all that violence in games is bad. All I wanna say is:

If you do not like violence in games, don''t play violent games!

Let us people who like it, play it, and if you don''t like it, don''t play it. Because I highly doubt you will be able to convince the millions of people who play violent video games that the violence is wrong and should not be allowed in video games. It''s just like trying to convince the movie industry to stop making violent movies. It''s impossible. Just let it be allowed and if you don''t like it, don''t watch it.

See that, short and too the point.

Moose

Moose your an idiot. How can you argue with me if you dont have a clue what Im arguing about?

Read... it wont hurt you.

quote: Original post by Zao Martyr
Laws and restrictions!? I dont know who taught you how to read but they didnt do a very good job. I NEVER EVER said that laws and restrictions are gonna solve anything! In fact, I even pointed out that it is impossible to rely on laws and restrictions to prevent our kids from getting a hold of violent games!

You say we need to increase awareness that violence is a problem yet your trying to add to the endless list of games that glorify violence. Your contradicting yourself!!

I never said you said that. And I''m not contradicting myself, I''m saying that restricting the free spread of ideas is certainly not the answer to problems with violence. And why do you want to prevent kids from getting a hold of violent games? If the system really worked, it would allow them to get a hold of them if they are stable enough to handle them. You must agree that many 13-16 year olds are more mature than many 17-whatever year olds.

quote:
You cant answer a question with another question!... Yet again youve managed to pussy-foot around my original query.

I bet the reason you cant answer my question is becuase you simply haven''t put any thought into it.

Why not? It''s the Socratic Method...do you disrespect the genius of the great Socrates? How about instead of making excuses for me not traditionally "answering" your question, you answer mine? And to appease you, I''ll answer your incredibly simple question. You asked...

quote:
Why add more to the never ending list of violent games when you can create something just as fun, that can have a positive effect on our youth?

Because these games are not created for our youth. The M symbol indicates that this game is intended for a mature audience, who are able to be entertained by things such as this. They are intended for people who want an escape from the everyday monotony. This is the goal of the designer. To make the player forget about lifes troubles for a while, and have some fun. The world would be a bland place if escapes like these did not exist. If there were nothing but ho-hum "play the hero" games, and non-stop showing of the Teletubbies on every channel, I dare to say that it may be possible for people who depended on these escapes, may decide to play them out in reality!

quote: Original Post by Zao Martyr I dont blame games for societies flaws...

quote: Original Post by Zao Martyr ...my view is that games are accountable for violence in this country is...

Who did you say was contradicting themself?

quote: Original Post by Zao Martyr
Maybe you guys just cant read english very well? Or maybe some of you are very slow and cant comprehend or answer logical questions. Or maybe some of you may have not had a proper 1st grade education...

...this isn''t necessary, please refrain from comments such as these. Thanks.





DON''T COPY THAT FLOPPY!