quote: Original post by MillaTime
The character I planned will be a psycho, most likely seeking revenge on those who shoved him in lockers throughout high-school. And good thinking with the crack idea!

Ya do that....and while your at it, why dont you tell us all your full name so we can look you up in the guinness book of world records for "most lawsuits filed against"

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And good thinking with the rape idea.

*sigh*...

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In conclusion...
I think that you people are taking PIXELATED violence too seriously.

Yes people do take these things seriously. If they didnt, then we would already have terrible games out like this one.

You cant just expose someone to murder/rape/etc...(real or on-screen) and just tell them to "not take it seriously". Some how or another its gonna impact you whether you like it or not.

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...It''s not the game that turns the person crazy, it''s those missing fibers in his brain that seperate reality from what is projected on a screen...

People like the columbine shooters knew the difference between reality and videogames. They werent insane or demented. They were completely calm and focused in their planning and in their execution. They were just two rejected outcasts that dealt with there anger and frustration the only way they knew how. And ofcourse that was to kill who they didnt like or who didnt share their opinions.

Come on, dont be stupid... its in the media, its all over the gaming industry... If someone gets in your way, kill them.

That was the only logical solution in their problems.

That was the only logical solution to Timothy McVeigh''s problems.

That was the only logical solution to Eric Rudolf''s problems.

The above werent psychotic, bloodthirsty barbarians. They were normal people who had problems just like anyone else.

Now you wanna sit here and tell me that my idea is cliche when there are hundreds of thousands of different movies/games/tv shows/comics that glorify the slaughter of people?

Whats the fun in killing a man in front of his wife and kids in the middle of a sunday barbeque? Wheres the glory in raping innocent women at night when they are most vulnerable and defenseless?

Lets see how you feel about this when your 10 year old gets a hold of a game like that while your at work oblivious.

You make me sick.

Do the world a favor and choose not to procreate.

quote: Original post by Zao Martyr
"most lawsuits filed against"

They can bring the lawsuits. This country was founded upon freedom. Freedom to do what one chooses, create what one decides, and spread his ideas freely. It would seem that you always hear of videogame companies being sued, and so, videogames are the media''s scapegoat, despite the movies like Scarface, The Godfather, and all those other crime-related movies. Not to mention the ones like The Terminator, where an entire Police Station is slaughtered. This is probably because mostly kids play videogames, when they are the most impressionable. But it clearly says on games like this, that they are recommended for 17+, and thus it''s the parents responsibility to decide whether or not their child is straight in the head. I hate it when entertainment is blamed and brought down when some kid takes it too seriously. Kinda like when that one kid listened to Ozzy''s "Suicide Solution" for 17 hours straight, and then killed himself, so the parents sued Ozzy...the parents couldn''t hear the song? Or could they, but they didn''t care to see if anything was the matter? It''s not his fault, and it''s because of lawsuits like these that media isn''t where it should be today.

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And good thinking with the rape idea.

notice the wink, that means I was just kidding...I have some conscience, though it''s only holding me down.

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Yes people do take these things seriously. If they didnt, then we would already have terrible games out like this one.

You cant just expose someone to murder/rape/etc...(real or on-screen) and just tell them to "not take it seriously". Some how or another its gonna impact you whether you like it or not.

People already have been exposed to murder/rape/etc(onscreen and off). It''s the fact that they learn to not take them seriously, that they become desensitized by them, and don''t think it''s wrong to do in the real world. Perhaps you don''t watch TV, movies, or play videogames...but shows like CSI, Murder She Wrote, etc. revolve around murder and rape. Movies like The Godfather, Heat, etc. delve into the life of drug-dealing, crime, thievery, and senseless murder. Hell, in the latest GTAs, your character could have sex with a prostitute, and then kill her and steal your money back. Plus there are games like the aforementioned Postal series. And the Carmageddon games. Just because you haven''t been paying attention does not mean that we don''t already have "terrible" games out like this one.

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...the columbine shooters knew the difference between reality and videogames. They werent insane or demented. They were completely calm and focused in their planning and in their execution. They were just two rejected outcasts that dealt with there anger and frustration the only way they knew how. And ofcourse that was to kill who they didnt like or who didnt share their opinions.

Come on, dont be stupid... its in the media, its all over the gaming industry... If someone gets in your way, kill them.

That was the only logical solution in their problems.

That was the only logical solution to Timothy McVeigh''s problems.

That was the only logical solution to Eric Rudolf''s problems.

The above werent psychotic, bloodthirsty barbarians. They were normal people who had problems just like anyone else.

The columbine killers were not insane or demented? Last I checked you have to be pretty insane and demented to slaughter people because they exclude and make fun of you, or they believe in god, or they''re a teacher who wouldn''t get off your back. You call Eric Rudolf and Timothy McVeigh "normal people", "not psychotic", and "just like anyone else". These people took these things too seriously. Timothy McVeigh read pro-Nazi books, and thought of himself as a hero for what he did. Eric Rudolf, with his "Army of God" felt that he, like the muslims in 9/11, would be rewarded for his crimes. And the two columbine students probably thought that there wasn''t much in this life for them, they were made fun of, and didn''t have any real interests outside of DOOM. So they thought they''d play the game one last time, for real.

Wires, lights, metal, film, ink and paper...that''s all it is. And yet, it can spread ideas, twist emotions, and if the person is insane and demented--kill. But the blame cannot be placed on the creator and his team. These people all chose to purchase and be led by these things. It''s their fault.

quote: Whats the fun in killing a man in front of his wife and kids in the middle of a sunday barbeque? Wheres the glory in raping innocent women at night when they are most vulnerable and defenseless?

What''s the fun in playing the bad-guy, you ask? Why not ask any of the millions of people who own GTA games, Scarface, and the Godfather movies, and there are countless others. The fun of doing these things, is because they are not real. They are things that you would and shouldn''t ever do in real life, but they are entertaining nonetheless.

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Lets see how you feel about this when your 10 year old gets a hold of a game like that while your at work oblivious.

You make me sick.

Do the world a favor and choose not to procreate.

I''m sure by the time that I have a ten year old, that will be impossible. Either the sale of content such as this will be completly restricted to minors, or the security devices in the systems will be able to weed them out. I definitely plan on monitoring what my future children play, and if I feel they are mature enough, despite their age, I will play games like this with them. That''s the responsibility of the parent. If you believe that I am going to raise the next Timothy McVeigh, you are desperately wrong. I plan on doing the world a favor by procreating, because I would certainly hope that my children have a lot to offer to this world. If I make you sick, then spend less time reading this topic, and spend more time puking in the toilet while reading your bible, because I doubt you''ll take heed to anything I say here.

In conclusion...
This individual attempted to link forms of media to modern radical terrorists. Entertainment cannot be blamed for the world''s trash. If we choose to start pulling DOOM off the shelves because another school shooting occurs, then we might as well start burning all the bibles for causing holy wars in Israel. We might as well start burning Muslim mosques because they are the ones of whom their ideas were twisted, and made 9/11 happen. Even if televisions, computers, books, religions, and all forms of entertainment, ideas, and beliefs were rid of. Society would still have these extremist psychopaths who decide to kill, rape, and steal.



DON''T COPY THAT FLOPPY!

quote: Original post by MillaTime
You call Eric Rudolf and Timothy McVeigh "normal people", "not psychotic", and "just like anyone else".

I dont believe they were crazy or demented. They each have a loyal following of legitimate and sane people. If we were to say that everyone who killed for what they believed in was crazy then we'd be calling people George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Winston Churchill, and every person that has sacrificed their life in battle to get us where we are today crazy.

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These people took these things too seriously.

So your saying that we shouldnt take the shootings in Waco, Texas seriously?
Or the whole abortion issue should just be disregarded?
Or our own personal beliefs shouldnt be takin seriously?

Open your eyes because this what those people killed for. And you can't sit here and tell me that they are insane because they "took this stuff too seriously".

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quote: Whats the fun in killing a man in front of his wife and kids in the middle of a sunday barbeque? Wheres the glory in raping innocent women at night when they are most vulnerable and defenseless?

What's the fun in playing the bad-guy, you ask?

No I didnt ask that... your taking what I said out of context.

I simply asked what makes killing innocent defenseless people (for no reason) fun?

Honestly a fun game in my opinion has be entertaining yet filled with strategy and action. This can be any game from Tetris to more violent games like Quake and GTA.

But why create a game that could (possibly) be responsible for corrupting our nation? Especially when you can achieve the same elements of entertaining strategy and action in a less violent game that could be constructive for people of all ages to enjoy.

Why are people fixated on violent games?

I think its because the entertainment/gaming industry gives the false illusion that killing people is actually fun and enjoyable.

Before all of the detailed violent games like GTA and Quake, it would have been safe to assume that anyone that thinks killing people is fun, is insane and demented.

But now it seems everyone thinks that killing people is truly a fun experience.

And since its unreasonable to do this in real life, people have an urge to do it in videogames.

But people dont realize that there is a very thin line between the type of person that would kill in a game and the type of person that would kill in real life. (And people like Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold only support this claim)

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Lets see how you feel about this when your 10 year old gets a hold of a game like that while your at work oblivious.

You make me sick.

Do the world a favor and choose not to procreate.

I'm sure by the time that I have a ten year old, that will be impossible.

Now thats just being totally unrealistic. Its NEVER gonna be impossible.

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I definitely plan on monitoring what my future children play, and if I feel they are mature enough, despite their age, I will play games like this with them.

Theres only so much monitering you can do with your kids. You can't be everywhere they are all the time. You gotta go to work at some point.

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If I make you sick, then spend less time reading this topic, and spend more time puking in the toilet while reading your bible, because I doubt you'll take heed to anything I say here.

A typical stereotype... I'm not surprised.

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In conclusion...
This individual attempted to link forms of media to modern radical terrorists. Entertainment cannot be blamed for the world's trash. If we choose to start pulling DOOM off the shelves because another school shooting occurs, then we might as well start burning all the bibles for causing holy wars in Israel. We might as well start burning Muslim mosques because they are the ones of whom their ideas were twisted, and made 9/11 happen. Even if televisions, computers, books, religions, and all forms of entertainment, ideas, and beliefs were rid of. Society would still have these extremist psychopaths who decide to kill, rape, and steal.

At what point did I ever say that we should eliminate all violent games?

[edited by - Zao Martyr on July 29, 2003 5:42:11 PM]

[edited by - Zao Martyr on July 29, 2003 5:50:00 PM]

Go ZAO - Down with Milla

Personally - Milla, I see that you quoted me a few times before. And basically, you attacked me for the wrong reason, IDIOT!!! I didn''t care too much about the violence factor, of course however I don''t believe in it, but I also believe in freedom too. However, that isn''t why I was saying you game sucked. READ MY POST AGAIN. I was saying that your design in the first place was faulty. IT IS A TOY, NOT A GAME. That was my big problem with it.

Now - after reading everything, I''m back to finish somethings up.

First - Milla, how does making the player a psycho any better from just a "normal" person. It changes nothing at all except the person''s title.

BTW - I have played a lot of games, including GTA 3, Doom, and Dues Ex. Those are about the most violent games I can think of that I have played in a large amount. So don''t say I only play non-violent games when you know shit about me.

Also - Yeah, we have all been exposed to rape, murder, drugs, etc. But do we need to be exposed to them in an irresponsible manor? And yeah, sure, everyday we are exposed to it in an irresponisble manor on TV and in Music and in Movies and games, but does that make it right? Does that mean that we need more?

Lastly - What is with this "Don''t like it, Don''t buy it." Yeah, I agree that, for finacial reasons, if you don''t like something, then you shouldn''t buy it, but it doesn''t mean you should act like it doesn''t exist. I was/am 100% against the Iraq war, but that didn''t mean that I just hid my head in the ground. I read the newspaper and watched the President give his speeches to keep my self informed and I protested in DC and at my school on multiple occasions to show my disgust towards it. THIS IS WHAT YOU CALL DEMOCRACY. So Milla, before you start wrapping yourself in your flag reciting the first amendment, consider this. If it wasn''t for people taking action against the wrong doings of the people in power, there would be no America, along with no First Amendment to protect your sorry ass. So if you are going to use our contries amendments to make an arguement, it would make sense to not bash the concept, democracy, that gives you the right to make that argument.

Good point bigwiger

And another thing I forgot to mention is that kids dont have to necessarily buy a game to play it.

There are plenty of different ways that extremely violent games could get into the wrong hands. So the idea of a flawless "age verification" system or something similar is pretty worthless especially in this day in age (with the internet and countless file sharing progs)

quote: Original Post by MillaTime
...This is probably because mostly kids play videogames, when they are the most impressionable. But it clearly says on games like this, that they are recommended for 17+, and thus it's the parents responsibility to decide whether or not their child is straight in the head...

And I agree that it IS the parents responsibility, but guess what? NOT ALL PARENTS ARE RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE!

quote: Original Post by bigwiger
If it wasn't for people taking action against the wrong doings of the people in power, there would be no America, along with no First Amendment to protect your sorry ass.

Another good point. And with this in mind, I would like everyone to think about people like Timothy McVeigh, and Eric Rudolph. Im not trying to justify their actions or disrepect the people they killed, but I just think you should look at it from another perspective.

I know this sounds pretty extreme but its true nonetheless:

If people werent willing to kill for what they believed in, then we would have no America... and we have no freedom.

I bet when George Washington decided to rebel against the british government, they labeled him as a murderer or a "terrorist".

They wouldnt have dreamed that 200 years from then people would look at him as a hero and founding father.

Who says that we won't look at people like Timothy McVeigh 200 years from now and say "Hey... his cause was justified... we should have done something about the shootings in Waco Texas and Ruby Ridge." Or who knows... we might be waiting at the pearly gates of heaven only to find out that abortion truly is wrong and that Eric Rudolph was just trying to fix that.

Again I would like to emphasize that Im NOT trying to justify what they did. Two wrongs definantly dont make a right.

check this interview out with Timothy McVeigh. I think its the only time that he was correctly portrayed (instead of being labeled a psycho-terrorist by the media)

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,109478,00.html

Anyways... I kinda got off subject but its worth the read.



[edited by - Zao Martyr on July 31, 2003 5:37:42 AM]

Gimme a break on the whole ''that''s sick and morbid'' crap. I won''t buy a game that you have to kill inoocent people blah blah blah. What the FIRST thing people do in GTA3? You get in a car and drive on the sidewalk mowing people down. You get the sniper rifle and blow people''s heads off. Better to do it in a game than in real life.

Personally, I would love a serial killer game. And as some sappy guy pointed out, I''d love a rape game too. And the game about buying crack from drug dealers. They are all great ideas. Now the original idea of a serial killer game would prolly never make it. The biggest hurdle of that is the AI for the police. Also, most people wouldn''t be serial killers, they''d be mass murderers. Serial killers follow a pattern and don''t kill 50 people in one night. It would be a slow paced game and prolly just have a list of scripted things to do ''mail a letter to the cops, call them and laugh, draw a satanic symbol at the scene). On the other hand, a game from the cop''s perspective on finding a serial killer would be more doable, but people are tired of being the good guy. I bet more people go to the Dark Side in the new Knights of the Old Republic game than go Light Side. Game''s are about alot of things, one is being able to take a role you can''t in real life. Even if it is a criminal.

Besides, you''d get all kinds of free advertising and press on it. Free marketing. An even better bonus. Now, to go write the Terrorist Hijacking game...

quote: Original Post by MillaTime
...This is probably because mostly kids play videogames, when they are the most impressionable. But it clearly says on games like this, that they are recommended for 17+, and thus it''s the parents responsibility to decide whether or not their child is straight in the head...

Nah - I don''t think that it really the parents fault. I mean, to an extent you can blame the parents, but then you can blame a lot of people from there, like the creators, the retail store that sells the game, the company that ships the games out, the publishers, and the list goes on. The fact is that it isn''t just one or a few people''s fault for the violence in video games. It is the societies fault. When we live in a society that condones and glorifies ultra-violence, then games that include this ultra-violence will thrive.

quote: Original post by Stonicus
Gimme a break on the whole ''that''s sick and morbid'' crap. I won''t buy a game that you have to kill inoocent people blah blah blah. What the FIRST thing people do in GTA3? You get in a car and drive on the sidewalk mowing people down. You get the sniper rifle and blow people''s heads off.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. But people like me shouldnt have to waste our time and tax money in an effort to prevent our youth from getting a hold of games like this. Which is most likely impossible anyways. (As I mentioned earlier)

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Better to do it in a game than in real life.

True, but that doesnt make it right.

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Personally, I would love a serial killer game. And as some sappy guy pointed out, I''d love a rape game too. And the game about buying crack from drug dealers. They are all great ideas.

Again... theres only so much strategy that could be involved when trying to kill defenseless and innocent people. The reason GTA was so popular is because it actually had missions and a storyline. Just becuase some people enjoy killing random bystanders every now and then doesnt mean that you should base a whole game on that single idea. It would get pretty old.

I''m basicly just restating what bigwiger originally said, because its obvious that you didnt take the time to read it.

quote: Original post by Stonicus
Gimme a break on the whole ''that''s sick and morbid'' crap. I won''t buy a game that you have to kill inoocent people blah blah blah. What the FIRST thing people do in GTA3? You get in a car and drive on the sidewalk mowing people down. You get the sniper rifle and blow people''s heads off. Better to do it in a game than in real life.

Personally, I would love a serial killer game. And as some sappy guy pointed out, I''d love a rape game too. And the game about buying crack from drug dealers. They are all great ideas. Now the original idea of a serial killer game would prolly never make it. The biggest hurdle of that is the AI for the police. Also, most people wouldn''t be serial killers, they''d be mass murderers. Serial killers follow a pattern and don''t kill 50 people in one night. It would be a slow paced game and prolly just have a list of scripted things to do ''mail a letter to the cops, call them and laugh, draw a satanic symbol at the scene). On the other hand, a game from the cop''s perspective on finding a serial killer would be more doable, but people are tired of being the good guy. I bet more people go to the Dark Side in the new Knights of the Old Republic game than go Light Side. Game''s are about alot of things, one is being able to take a role you can''t in real life. Even if it is a criminal.

Besides, you''d get all kinds of free advertising and press on it. Free marketing. An even better bonus. Now, to go write the Terrorist Hijacking game...

bout time I get a post worth reading. You two keep saying the same thing over and over and over. How do you know that in the future it will not be impossible? It''s pretty hard already, and computers advance very rapidly. Hell, even now a parent could set up a net-cam in their sons room, facing the TV, and periodically monitor what they''re watching/playing from afar. Or even take a vital cord that connects the TV to work. And I believe Zao pointed out that not all parents are responsible people...and so when the child shoots up a school, then who gets blamed? Not the irresponsible parents, the presenters of an idea. Who''s to say we shouldn''t be exposed to more violent material in the media. The crime rate continues to fall, despite the growing abilities of the media. This is just history repeating itself. Like back in the 50''s when the elders were against Rock ''n Roll. Even games like Frogger and Galaga used to get scolded. If you''re truly afraid of your child being exposed to things like this, then join your local Mennonite community, and destroy your TV, PC, and Gaming Consoles. Or go do what one of you has and start protesting in DC, whatever it takes to get you away from your computers and post crap like this. Honestly I''m surprised that you people would join a game making forum when you believe that games are to blame for society''s flaws...





DON''T COPY THAT FLOPPY!