I learned something from the clintoneans: Bombing muslims isn't racist, what is racist (and probably not multicultural) is to not let these so called bombed and angry muslims into your own country.

Oh for sure, liberals/DNC in general and Clintons in particular are extremely disengenuous and downright disgusting on most issues. They do have the most shallow "progressive" politics imagineable. Obama bombed 7 countries and helped built a mass surveillance/drone system, and now they're going "omg we never thought it was going to fall into the hands of a proto-fascist! What now!". I dunno, maybe have freaking Lena Dunham or Beyonce run for president in 2020, that'll show them.

The most consistent critique comes from the left, which is *not* the Democrats, and certainly not the Clintons. The left hates the Democrats as much as Trump, even if it acknowledges that a "business as usual" neoliberal imperialist is still preferable to a proto-fascist bigot.

At least now liberals are going to start thinking "omg extrajudicial drone strikes in 3rd world countries *are* bad! I never knew!". You know, now that the Trump admin is going to perform them. Beter late than never. :P

(assuming the worse, the all people ban could even just be an excuse so that no muslim can claim to be christian and still enter).

I remember a case from Sweeden. A refugee was facing extradition because he was accused to raping a female teenager (I think she was a minor), but the authorities were worried that he could face some kind of prosecution in his own country after he said to have converted to christianism (or something along these lines), the thing is that at the end they letted him free.

I learned something from the clintoneans: Bombing muslims isn't racist, what is racist (and probably not multicultural) is to not let these so called bombed and angry muslims into your own country.

Oh for sure, liberals/DNC in general and Clintons in particular are extremely disengenuous and downright disgusting on most issues. They do have the most shallow "progressive" politics imagineable. Obama bombed 7 countries and helped built a mass surveillance/drone system, and now they're going "omg we never thought it was going to fall into the hands of a proto-fascist! What now!". I dunno, maybe have freaking Lena Dunham or Beyonce run for president in 2020, that'll show them.

The most consistent critique comes from the left, which is *not* the Democrats, and certainly not the Clintons. The left hates the Democrats as much as Trump, even if it acknowledges that a "business as usual" neoliberal imperialist is still preferable to a proto-fascist bigot.

At least now liberals are going to start thinking "omg extrajudicial drone strikes in 3rd world countries *are* bad! I never knew!". You know, now that the Trump admin is going to perform them. Beter late than never. :P

The entire war on terror has been one giant overreaction, Democrats and Republicans alike.

I made a mistake entering this conversation. I did not realise that this had become a conversation of ideology, rather than a discussion of merit.

It's a discussion of paranoia and hyperbole, where facts are dismissed and fears are inflated to truth.

And you act as if you haven't posted any paranoid and hyperbolic stuff where facts disappear because of fear.

Ban on ALL people regardless of religion from 7 countries

Yeah, banning ALL people from countries with 90%+ muslims is not against muslims at all. How can you even belive otherwise - even if you discount the claim of xenophibia and racism, he still obviously targets "radical muslim terrorists".

(assuming the worse, the all people ban could even just be an excuse so that no muslim can claim to be christian and still enter).

^^^^ This here.

EDIT: I'm gonna stop posting political stuff because this isn't really serving any purpose at this point.

What have I posted based on fear/paranoia? I've been trying to give multiple sources for everything I post, taken as fact while it's clear to see that anti-trump people are taking things way out of context (AKA Trump didn't respond to the question he responded to, because this video has his response edited out).

At worst I was extremely incorrect on Trump's plans to at least attempt to carry through with some of his policies, but my assumption came from Trump's sudden change of heart on those policies in the past few years compared to his decades of support. I assumed he was lying to the more right wing base in exchange for votes.

The entire war on terror has been one giant overreaction, Democrats and Republicans alike.

Invading Afghanistan/Iraq/Meddling in Libya/Yemen/Syria have absolutely been disastrous, and is directly responsible for ISIS. Extra judicial killings of Osama/high ranking Taliban are warranted in my opinion, but invading that region was probably the worst thing Bush/Obama have done for global security.

Ban on ALL people regardless of religion from 7 countries

The order contains an exception for religious minorities who face “religious-based persecution, provided that the religion of the individual is a minority religion in the individual’s country of nationality.” In other words, there is a caveat for non-Muslims in Muslim-majority countries, making this a very specific Muslim ban.

Clearly the ban is aimed at Muslims, you'd have to be a thick as shit not to realise this.

It's also amusing to note that the majority of shootings in the USA are carried out by people born there...

More amusing when you consider that this ban basically sends a message that the USA hates Muslims... that'll help home grown terrorist recruitment nicely... this shit is probably going to make things worse...

(Fun to note that all the countries which provided people for the 9/11 attack aren't on the list... I hear rumours that Fuck Weasel has business dealings in those countries... but apparently no one gives a shit about that so...)

oh, look, cool... a tweet with numbers

For those not wanting to click, as it has sources cited;

Number of American's killed annually (10 year averages) by:
(since 9/11) Islamic jihadist immigrants : 2
(since 9/11) Far right-wing terrorist : 5
All Islamic jihadist immigrants (inc. US citizens) : 9
Armed toddlers : 21
Lighting : 31
Lawnmowers : 69
Being hit by a bus : 264
Falling out of bed : 737
(2005-2014) Being shot by another American : 11,737

Yeah... REAL problem with terrorist over there...

EDIT: I'm gonna stop posting political stuff because this isn't really serving any purpose at this point.

It was you who revived this thread \\// when it laid dormant for some weeks in the first place anyway

This is a bit of an old topic, but it seemed worth reviving, cause now that Trump does seem to be making that wall.

you always knew that in this forum there are lots of people with views diametrically opposed to yours when you revived it. And from experience you should know that things get heated, because people are so passionate about their views.

And this forum roughly represents what America is like (not discounting people from outside the US). On the one hand it has a lot of liberal people. On the other hand it also comprises of those screaming with every vein in their neck "I want my country back"

The second group out number the first

So your frustration surprises and amuses me (not the first time you shown it :))

EDIT: I'm gonna stop posting political stuff because this isn't really serving any purpose at this point.

It was you who revived this thread \\// when it laid dormant for some weeks in the first place anyway

This is a bit of an old topic, but it seemed worth reviving, cause now that Trump does seem to be making that wall.

you always knew that in this forum there are lots of people with views diametrically opposed to yours when you revived it. And from experience you should know that things get heated, because people are so passionate about their views.

And this forum roughly represents what America is like (not ignoring people from outside the US). On the one hand it has a lot of liberal people. On the other hand it also comprises of those screaming with every vein in their neck "I want my country back"

The second group out number the first

So your frustration surprises and amuses me (not the first time you shown it :))

I know, people don't quite get me. I myself don't sometimes (many times). Let me PM you, since I'm not really interested in continuing this line of thought here.

Clearly the ban is aimed at Muslims, you'd have to be a thick as shit not to realise this.

Technically, he is banning people from specific countries. Yes, we all know and realize it's practically banning the muslims. I'm still waiting for the SCOTUS decision on this.

On the one hand it has a lot of liberal people. On the other hand it also comprises of those screaming with every vein in their neck "I want my country back"

The second group out number the first

Once again, THEY DON'T. Even if you must persist with the Electoral College nonsense, the fact remains that 3 MILLION more liberals voted for Hillary than conservatives voted for Trump AND 11 MILLION more people voted for Democratic senators than Republican senators.

Liberals need to stop pretending they're an endangered species and start acting like what they are... the majority.

On the one hand it has a lot of liberal people. On the other hand it also comprises of those screaming with every vein in their neck "I want my country back"

The second group out number the first

Once again, THEY DON'T. Even if you must persist with the Electoral College nonsense, the fact remains that 3 MILLION more liberals voted for Hillary than conservatives voted for Trump AND 11 MILLION more people voted for Democratic senators than Republican senators.
Liberals need to stop pretending they're an endangered species and start acting like what they are... the majority.

When you play a game you're aware of the rules.

If you vote you choose to do so knowing how the system works and that this sort of thing happens, so why then complain when the vote doesn't have the outcome you wanted?

It's the same here with brexit, and there wasn't even any electoral college in the mix...