Sources: CNN, NYT, and The Guardian. You just managed to implode.

Was that directed at me? Those are reliable news sources, with real journalists.

Besides none of the facts I posted are in doubt.

Conway is a fucking idiot and clearly lied about the inauguration. "Alternative facts" FFS.

Perry is on record as wanting to abolish the Dept of Energy and didn't know it was responsible for the US nuclear arsenal.

Betsy Devos' family has donated to creationist causes.

And Tom Price bought stock in a company and then was involved in legislation which benefitted it.

None of those facts are alternative and none of them are in dispute, no matter how much you try to spin it.

I thought you were specifically talking about the new images CNN release of the Inauguration (The fake ones), which is why I brought them up. If you meant in general about the number of viewers, then yeah, as I said obviously Trump lied about it, then lied about lying about it.

Trump's demonstrably a liar, I never claimed otherwise. What I was hoping in the election (and I can find if I look) was that when it came time to doing the job he'd be a mix of the policies he supported in the 90's/early 200's, and a mix of what he's promised his campaign, which generally seems to be what he's keeping to.

I really don't care one way or the other about a wall, with it only being predicted to cost $10~ Billion. That's a drop in the bucket, and a lot of people seem to want it, so good on him for actually delivering I guess.

Either way, his behavior isn't insane, it's sociopathically (this should be a word) calculated and very understandable/meticulous. Essentially he's building a bubble of grandeur he can reference and claim as fact. This is why he fights on every single little thing until people are tired of fighting him, then claims what he was fighting for as fact, getting the final say. From a moralistic standpoint it's brazenly atrocious, but as long as his policy keeps going this way, I'll be happy enough to vote for him again in 2020 (When Clinton runs again).

Now, if a candidate (like Webb) comes along and manages to get the democratic nomination, I'll probably vote for them instead. Same thing if Rand Paul challenges Trump in a primary, I'll vote for Rand.

Being 100% behind a candidate is stupid. Being 100% against a candidate is stupid as well, which is something the left's going to need to learn will dissuade people from supporting them before the DNC collapses again.

or just wait a couple of years for trump to implode. Since he doesn't understand the complexity of governing / economics most of his plans will blow up in his face. I would like to be there when he learns congress has to approve funding for his wall.

If there will really be a wall, Mexico should immediately announce new projects of "underground human passage" and "human catapults along the border"

Withdrawing from TPP, renegotiating nafta, requiring US manufactured steel in building projects, dragging car manufacturers back kicking and screaming... Looks like we're in the timeline where Trump fulfills his promises/does a great job.

I must say that I'm quite surprised (not to say shocked) how true he is to his word, even with promises that were total bullshit, and of which everbody knew he couldn't possibly be serious. Well, he is serious. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

But it will remain to be seen how these ambitious projects will look in 6 or 12 months from now. It's all nice and well to require Ye American Steele for bulding projects, but Ye Chinese Steele costs only 25% as much. Which means buildings will get a lot more expensive. The threats in import taxes on everything-not-american are funny as well, it will remain to be seen how well the USA fare if some major companies exporting corn starch products must pay import taxes abroad (Coca Cola, Kraft, Heinz, anyone?) worldwide, which is a likely reaction of other nations if these threats become reality.

Actually building that wall is something that really shocks me (if TV news can be trusted, this might still be a hoax?). I was 100% convinced he couldn't be serious about that one. I mean, we're talking about something 3200 kilometers wide, and presumably some 3 to 5 meters high, and if it is to withstand the most trivial attempts to breach (sledge hammer, or driving a car into it), at least half a meter thick, probably more like 1-2 meters. That'll be something between 10 and 20 billion cubic meters of concrete needed, not counting groundwork. At a price of approx 150 dollars per cubic meter, that's... a lot of money, and this doesn't include wages for workers. Well, I see lowering taxes being a realistic plan.
Seeing how the USA produce a total of 275M tons of concrete per year, which translates to something between 100 and 120 million cubic meters, there's a real challenge getting together a two-digit billion cubic meter figure, too. Well, I'm curious what becomes of it :)

Withdrawing from TPP, renegotiating nafta, requiring US manufactured steel in building projects, dragging car manufacturers back kicking and screaming... Looks like we're in the timeline where Trump fulfills his promises/does a great job.

I must say that I'm quite surprised (not to say shocked) how true he is to his word, even with promises that were total bullshit, and of which everbody knew he couldn't possibly be serious. Well, he is serious. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

But it will remain to be seen how these ambitious projects will look in 6 or 12 months from now. It's all nice and well to require Ye American Steele for bulding projects, but Ye Chinese Steele costs only 25% as much. Which means buildings will get a lot more expensive. The threats in import taxes on everything-not-american are funny as well, it will remain to be seen how well the USA fare if some major companies exporting corn starch products must pay import taxes abroad (Coca Cola, Kraft, Heinz, anyone?) worldwide, which is a likely reaction of other nations if these threats become reality.

Actually building that wall is something that really shocks me (if TV news can be trusted, this might still be a hoax?). I was 100% convinced he couldn't be serious about that one. I mean, we're talking about something 3200 kilometers wide, and presumably some 3 to 5 meters high, and if it is to withstand the most trivial attempts to breach (sledge hammer, or driving a car into it), at least half a meter thick, probably more like 1-2 meters. That'll be something between 10 and 20 billion cubic meters of concrete needed, not counting groundwork. At a price of approx 150 dollars per cubic meter, that's... a lot of money, and this doesn't include wages for workers. Well, I see lowering taxes being a realistic plan.
Seeing how the USA produce a total of 275M tons of concrete per year, which translates to something between 100 and 120 million cubic meters, there's a real challenge getting together a two-digit billion cubic meter figure, too. Well, I'm curious what becomes of it :)

How did you get to 10-20 billion cubic meters?

3,000,000m * 2m * 5m = 30,000,000 m^3.

I must say that I'm quite surprised (not to say shocked) how true he is to his word, even with promises that were total bullshit, and of which the majority of trump supporters choose to selectively ignore based on the presumption that he doesn't mean what he is saying on randomly selected topics . Well, he is serious. I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing.

There, I fixed that for you. Not everybody knew (can we just ban those words from political debate altogether? I'm getting cancer just from reading people claim "everybody" "knows" about this and that when its clearly not everbody and its clearly impossible to know for a fact) that, in fact those people that claimed they knew, like you, are now proven to be wrong - I can't deny thats a tad bit satisfying.

I mean, the fact that you are so shocked about this is just amusing. What, the guy that said he was going to do all those things is actually really doing them? Do tell!

I would reall yhope this goes to show you and other people that they should rely less on their heavily biased presumptions, and more on deductive reasoning and logic. Like: Guy repeatedly says he wants to build large fence => Guy probably wants to fucking build large fucking fence. Jesus... Its kinda funny to see people like you constantly rally on how they are being deceived by everything and everybody, when in reality you are doing a great job at deceiving yourself. No amount of fake-news can come close to top that.

There, I fixed that for you. Not everybody knew (can we just ban those words from political debate altogether? I'm getting cancer just from reading people claim "everybody" "knows" about this and that when its clearly not everbody and its clearly impossible to know for a fact) that, in fact those people that claimed they knew, like you, are now proven to be wrong - I can't deny thats a tad bit satisfying.
I mean, the fact that you are so shocked about this is just amusing.

Don't be too complacent with yourself, there's no reason for your scorn. I am not "so shocked". But yes, I do find it stunning that a politician -- a liar by definition -- actually stands to his word, and does (or at least attempts to do, the results remain to be seen) everything he said he would do, including the things that are sheer insane.

This must be the first time in my lifetime that someone promised something, got elected, and then actually did what he promised. I think Hitler was the last person in history doing that...
If this does not in some way shock you, then you need to get real :)

I am not abstaining from "everybody knew", but if you insist I'll say "everybody who was at his senses knew". Sure, it turns out I was wrong thinking "won't happen" (but let's wait until the wall is finished). But that's irrelevant. I mean, yeah I was wrong. Woah, what a disgrace. Tell me you've never been wrong in your predictions.

Being right or wrong on looking into the crystal ball and predicting the future is not the the important thing, however.

If I promised to you I was going to build a tower to the moon, or I was going to build a city for ten million people located on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean, would you take that as a promise? There are things that are just way too absurd, and this certainly warrants saying "it's a given fact that you aren't going to do that", or "we all know this isn't going to happen".

Everybody knows that I'm not going to build a tower to the moon, or build a city on the bottom of the sea. Believing a statement (and insisting on its truth solely because it has been said) when the statement is absurd beyond measure and hardly doable at all, is, in my opinion, not a sign of sanity on one's own behalf. Even if, in hindsight, it turns out being true.

How did you get to 10-20 billion cubic meters?
3,000,000m * 2m * 5m = 30,000,000 m^3.

Huh, you're right. No idea, I typed the numbers into the google search field to multiply them together quick (I'm using that as pocket calculator). Must accidentially have typed in an extra thousand too much somewhere. So at least that seems technically possible, only about 25-30% of the US annual production. Only, heh. Still, it strikes me as absurdly big. They'd have to do 800 kilometers per year if it is to be finished during his term. So, about 2km per day, without any holidays. That's harsh... :)

This must be the first time in my lifetime that someone promised something, got elected, and then actually did what he promised. I think Hitler was the last person in history doing that...

Are you sure you were paying attention? Even Trudeau, currently under a lot of fire for breaking specific promises, kept quite a few of his promises...

There, I fixed that for you. Not everybody knew (can we just ban those words from political debate altogether? I'm getting cancer just from reading people claim "everybody" "knows" about this and that when its clearly not everbody and its clearly impossible to know for a fact) that, in fact those people that claimed they knew, like you, are now proven to be wrong - I can't deny thats a tad bit satisfying.
I mean, the fact that you are so shocked about this is just amusing.

Don't be too complacent with yourself, there's no reason for your scorn. I am not "so shocked". But yes, I do find it stunning that a politician -- a liar by definition -- actually stands to his word, and does (or at least attempts to do, the results remain to be seen) everything he said he would do, including the things that are sheer insane.

This must be the first time in my lifetime that someone promised something, got elected, and then actually did what he promised. I think Hitler was the last person in history doing that...
If this does not in some way shock you, then you need to get real :)

I am not abstaining from "everybody knew", but if you insist I'll say "everybody who was at his senses knew". Sure, it turns out I was wrong thinking "won't happen" (but let's wait until the wall is finished). But that's irrelevant. I mean, yeah I was wrong. Woah, what a disgrace. Tell me you've never been wrong in your predictions.

Being right or wrong on looking into the crystal ball and predicting the future is not the the important thing, however.

If I promised to you I was going to build a tower to the moon, or I was going to build a city for ten million people located on the bottom of the Atlantic ocean, would you take that as a promise? There are things that are just way too absurd, and this certainly warrants saying "it's a given fact that you aren't going to do that", or "we all know this isn't going to happen".

Everybody knows that I'm not going to build a tower to the moon, or build a city on the bottom of the sea. Believing a statement (and insisting on its truth solely because it has been said) when the statement is absurd beyond measure and hardly doable at all, is, in my opinion, not a sign of sanity on one's own behalf. Even if, in hindsight, it turns out being true.

How did you get to 10-20 billion cubic meters?
3,000,000m * 2m * 5m = 30,000,000 m^3.

Huh, you're right. No idea, I typed the numbers into the google search field to multiply them together quick (I'm using that as pocket calculator). Must accidentially have typed in an extra thousand too much somewhere. So at least that seems technically possible, only about 25-30% of the US annual production. Only, heh. Still, it strikes me as absurdly big. They'd have to do 800 kilometers per year if it is to be finished during his term. So, about 2km per day, without any holidays. That's harsh... :)

Thing is, he never had any wishy washy statements about "I'm going to build a wall". He always said there will be a wall. He did backtrack at one point (or at least seemed to backtrack) but now recently has gone back to "yea I'm building a wall" and passed the executive order. While I agree that it remains to be seen whether or not this wall will be built (after all, Congress gets a say in funding it I believe), I don't think there was ever any doubt that this was his goal.

While you specifically may not be "shocked", there were a lot of people in the supporter camp who continued to state that things like the wall, etc. were worth ignoring because they were a): not going to happen and/or b): irrelevant because the other 'policies' were so great. I think that Juliean's point is that the reason this all sounded so utterly stupid was because deductively if Trump says he's going to do something as President while campaigning, one can only assume that he damn well meant it. That's the logical conclusion that one must reach. Not saying that this was you samoth, but a lot of the supporters have acted in precisely this way.

This must be the first time in my lifetime that someone promised something, got elected, and then actually did what he promised. I think Hitler was the last person in history doing that...

Are you sure you were paying attention? Even Trudeau, currently under a lot of fire for breaking specific promises, kept quite a few of his promises...

I would say there's a good amount of politicians who keep most promises. It's not a trait exclusive to few politicians. I think that mainly there's just more well known examples of politicians who never kept their promises.

If there will really be a wall, Mexico should immediately announce new projects of "underground human passage" and "human catapults along the border"

Well, you could always just strap people to a rocket, shoot them over, and see who makes it. :P

It seems that some bubbles can't be punctured.

He is renegotiating NAFTA, I presume he didn't repeal it because he can leverage the issue with this.

And... that's how.