Oh my fucking god, can we please get past this bullshit of the lying media? this horeseshit has gone on for way too long already. Like before we can even get to any sense of rational debate, it all comes back to the same fucking thing of how the media is lying.

This is really getting to a point of no return at this rate.

I mean like it's going to we want trump voters and supporters to look like the poor beaten up guys here, who cares about the minorities who are threatened by every racist group in America that are now getting super high off of Trump.

Oh my fucking god, can we please get past this bullshit of the lying media? this horeseshit has gone on for way too long already. Like before we can even get to any sense of rational debate, it all comes back to the same fucking thing of how the media is lying.

This is really getting to a point of no return at this rate.

I mean like it's going to we want trump voters and supporters to look like the poor beaten up guys here, who cares about the minorities who are threatened by every racist group in America that are now getting super high off of Trump.

Not until the media reforms. Did you read about the ammount of collusion that happened between Hillary's campaign and the cable media outlets?

There's clear bias/corruption in what they report.

I showed you a video of Trump supporters getting attacked (Which is becoming not-too-uncommon occurance really) and your response is "But what about the minorities who MAY be attacked!?".

All live matter, etc. If you care more about a minority possibly being attacked more than someone who actually was attacked, congradulations, you're a Senator Robert Byrd, and Clinton approved racist.

https://twitter.com/NikiBBOTT/status/793964024664834048
https://www.gofundme.com/hopewellbaptist?rcid=c1fd764aa14111e6b844bc764e065880

Just because Trump supporters helping to rebuild the church doesn't mean that the atmosphere of Trump's campaign didn't contribute to the perpetrator deciding to do it. Nobody has said that all Trump supporters are racist - only that Trump's racist rhetoric has empowered those who are.

http://abc7ny.com/news/police-3-more-victims-of-man-who-burned-woman-in-muslim-garb/1510841/

That link is broken.

http://www.snopes.com/transgender-suicides-after-2016-election/
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-youtube-star-guilty-20161108-story.html

Just because some reports are false or unproven, doesn't mean we should assume that all of them are.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/muslim-family-fled-america-islamophobia-usmani_us_57fd058fe4b0e655eab7aa3c

1. Did you read the rest of the story about how the rest of the family had been harassed by the neighbours?
2. Were you never a child? Did you never see bullying as a child? If the kids were complicit, of course they're not going to say anything, and tattle-tales tend to get ostracized. None of the bystanders would say anything, either because they supported the bullies or because they're afraid of retribution therefrom. As someone who was bullied as a child, I believe the child who claims he was bullied, because I know too well just how easy it is for children to lie to protect themselves. I've been through this shit, I know how this works.

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/wake-ed-blog/article108224467.html

Broken link.

Not until the media reforms.

What does that even mean?

All live matter, etc. If you care more about a minority possibly being attacked more than someone who actually was attacked, congradulations, you're a Senator Robert Byrd, and Clinton approved racist.

I care about minorities possibly being attacked because there is a history in the US of minorities being attacked. Why can't you at least admit that it's a reasonable fear?

https://www.epa.gov/ghgemissions/overview-greenhouse-gases

Cows don't emit carbon dioxide, so no.

At the risk of going far off-topic (I'll shut up after this one, promised).

You are of course joking, right? First, "cows do not emit carbon dioxide" is quite obviously wrong, how could they not. Like all mammals (you and me included), they certainly do. But do you expect me to hold my breath in fear of emitting CO2? Hardly. It's of course not the CO2 but the methane (which cows also produce) which is what their (Greens) "argument" is about. Methane has roughly 20 times as much "greenhouse power" as CO2.

However... the important details which they are -- of course -- leaving out are:

1. We spend huge amounts of money for "bio gas" production, which is used as replacement for nuclear energy. Now, "bio gas" is nothing but methane. All cows in the world couldn't shit enough to keep up with the methane that we deliberately produce. But that's OK... after all, it's sustainable, and it's bio. We're so good.
2. The amount of methane produced by cows is also ridiculous compared to what comes out of car exhausts and what we produce because we still (or rather... again) burn coal to produce electricity.
3. Same as (2), only replace "coal" with "trees". Meanwhile, because we're so fucking awesome sustainable, we're burning trees instead of coal. Yeah, it takes that beech 200 years to grow to that size, and we burn it in a couple of hours, but so what. Who cares? Who needs trees? Also, you know, we're recycling paper, we're so awesome.
4. At the same time we are wasting huge amounts of agricultural surface which could be used to produce food (and keep cows...) on rapeseed. Because, hey, rapeseed oil is sustainable and bio, and yay, you can put it into a Diesel car. Isn't that great. Of course the nitrate from fertilizing the rapeseed doesn't count, because you know, rapeseed is good. Except that rapeseed produces over 6,000 tons of methylbromide per year (in our country, not worldwide), which is both a strong greenhouse gas, and an ozone killer.

Oh heck, we might just be lucky... maybe the greenhouse effect and the ozone killing effect cancel out each other! :lol:

Just don't... samoth is basically a climate change denier so don't waste your time/effort on him...

Not so. I am a denier of blind, stupid, Green actionism.

I'm a denier of failing to understand the matter and then, following some perverted ideology, coming up with a crackpot idea of something and force everybody to do things that are at first sight useless, but nevertheless immensely expensive, only so in retrospective it turns out that the crackpot ideas were many times more harmful than anything we did before.

As Oberon_Command tried to tell you, just because the Green party in your country addresses the problem inconsistently and akwardly(at least according to your reports), in their efforts to make the officials not underestimate methane, it doesn't mean man-made climate change is a "hoax". The scientific consensus is that it is a *fact*. All you're saying here is that some groups are not very sure how to deal with it, or can't decide what is the weight they should assign to each factor.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-bad-of-a-greenhouse-gas-is-methane/

Seriously, imagine that we have a programming team solving a problem, and they can't quite decide what weight to multiply the variables(GWP20 and GWP100) with, so they end up writing spaghetti buggy code. You're the guy that says that the spaghetti code and the bugs prove that the original problem doesn't even exist. That's literally your argument here.

You do understand that whether man-made climate change is actually happening and how certain groups react to the information are completely orthogonal, right? Honestly, you overfill your posts with an endless barrage of anecdotes about what this politician did and what this other group said, and how the milk price went up and how many diesel cards were sold, like they have any sort of impact on whether or not climate change is an issue. Dude, even if you prove that everyone in the Green Party is an idiot, that would make not an iota of difference on whether climate change is a scientific reality or not.

As Oberon_Command tried to tell you, just because the Green party in your country addresses the problem inconsistently and akwardly(at least according to your reports), it doesn't mean man-made climate change is a "hoax". The scientific consensus is that it is a *fact*. All you're saying here is that some groups are not very sure how to deal with it. You do understand that whether man-made climate change is actually happening and how certain groups react to the information are completely orthogonal, right?

I'm not saying that the climate change is a hoax. That would be akin to saying Earth is flat. The climate change is very real, you only need to look outside your window to be convinced (no big scientific studies needed, really).

Everything around it, however is a hoax. And I'll insist on that. Kyoto meeting, Paris meeting, you name them. Or any of the stupid things we are forced to do "because climate".

There is no real interest in stopping this climate change, nor is there any real understanding. There's only zealots on one side and people who couldn't care less on the other side.

When you are trying to put out a forest fire with a single cup of water while a hundred meters away someone pours 20,000 liters of gasoline into the fire (this is approximately what our "save the climate" strategy looks like, as a metaphor) then I call this a hoax. What else can you call it.

As Oberon_Command tried to tell you, just because the Green party in your country addresses the problem inconsistently and akwardly(at least according to your reports), it doesn't mean man-made climate change is a "hoax". The scientific consensus is that it is a *fact*. All you're saying here is that some groups are not very sure how to deal with it. You do understand that whether man-made climate change is actually happening and how certain groups react to the information are completely orthogonal, right?

I'm not saying that the climate change is a hoax. That would be akin to saying Earth is flat. The climate change is very real, you only need to look outside your window to be convinced (no big scientific studies needed, really).

Everything around it, however is a hoax. And I'll insist on that. Kyoto meeting, Paris meeting, you name them. Or any of the stupid things we are forced to do "because climate".

There is no real interest in stopping this climate change, nor is there any real understanding. There's only zealots on one side and people who couldn't care less on the other side.

When you are trying to put out a forest fire with a single cup of water while a hundred meters away someone pours 20,000 liters of gasoline into the fire (this is approximately what our "save the climate" strategy looks like, as a metaphor) then I call this a hoax. What else can you call it.

Trump said it's a "hoax", in the sense that the problem doesn't even exist. It's something not real that some people just try to convince us that it's real.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/265895292191248385?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

If your thesis is that the "hoax" here is not that the problem doesn't exist, but the powers that be are handling it stupidly and ineffectively so far, maybe you shouldn't back a guy that proudly states there is no problem to solve in the first place, especially when that guy now runs one of the top-2 countries that contribute to the problem. I am seriously having trouble following your reasoning here. The problem, you believe, exists, but environmentalists in your *own* country are not handling it correctly, so let's give the keys of the country that is in the top-2 of problem-causers to a guy that states there is no problem in the first place.

And, also, the price of milk went up I guess.

That link is broken.

Weird, maybe it's region restricted.

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Muslim-Woman-Set-Fire-Fifth-Avenue-New-York-City-Manhattan-Bias-Hate-Crime-Police-393380481.html

Just because some reports are false or unproven, doesn't mean we should assume that all of them are.

True, but it means we should remain skeptical until it's proven.

I care about minorities possibly being attacked because there is a history in the US of minorities being attacked. Why can't you at least admit that it's a reasonable fear?

Because it hasn't happened recently, and there's no credible threat. At least, there's nothing indicating that it's going to happen, even though a lot of people seem upset about the possibility.

The argument is that "If you voted Trump you hate minorities because he's going to encourage people to browbeat minorities out of the country".

When it's kind of the opposite... Trump's been the most outspoken for gay rights of any Republican candidate, even inviting gay speaks to speak at the RNC. Actions speak louder than words for me, and Trump's already started to do as predicted (dive hard to the left/drop the rhetoric after winning),

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/caitlyn-jenner-takes-trump-his-bathroom-offer

At this point there's nothing really worthy of debate, because it's pure speculation until we're at least knee-deep in his term.

Even in the scenario where racists do support Trump AND feel emboldened by him winning.... That doesn't change anything, they're going to be in for an extreme dissapointment in the next few months. Maybe they'll post even more hateful comments online, but I really doubt anything substantial will happen.

I think Trump's got essentially a golden opportunity for the Republican party. He's in a legitimate position to force the Republicans to drop their awful social positions, and loosen their obsession with abortion/sexuality.

For his term I'm not expecting much, but I'm hoping he'll be better than Clinton.

the best case scenario is that Trump does literally nothing, proves to be a failure, etc. That's the best case scenario.

Why would this be the BEST case scenario? What if in the next 4 years he actually delivers on his promise to "drain the swamp" and implement term limits in the Senate? Or restores manufacturing to the rust belt?

Both are certainly possible with a stacked senate/house/supreme court. If you think the best case scenario is that Trump is too stupid to figure out how to navigate a presidency, you're definitely caught up in the media's hyperbole, and nothing anyone can say will convince you otherwise.

Its also possible that Mars One DOES put 4 people on Mars by 2027... its highly unlikely, with their small budget and pretty airy plans, but it might happen.

Same with Trump NOT f*cking up the US before f*cking up the rest of the world. Its possible. Maybe he has LEARNED something from being completly UNABLE to run his past businesses before finding the one thing he was good at: showbiz.

Maybe he will practice political Zen himself, and finds advisors that are not complete nutjobs to do the work for him.

Yes, that is possible. But Trump is Trump. Trump is full of himself. He really believes he is the cure for everything, and that he is capable of the things he proven incapable of in the past (like making good business decisions, besides just selling his name and becoming a reality TV star).

I have my doubts he can delegate the work to others while just shaking hands on TV and making big speeches. I am not really comparing their ideologies or whatever, but there was a german gentleman in the 30's who first ran his country in the ground, and then lost a war big time because he couldn't just stick to what he was good at, giving speeches and drumming up support... instead he made the life of his generals living hell with his inane decisions. Good for the world, really.

But IF someone is capable of developing a 180-ton monster tank when the country is barely able to churn out enough 30-ton medium tanks to keep pace with the enemy in 2016, its Trump. No matter what he says or does, his history makes it hard for me to believe he comes up with the good stuff. Most probably the "good ideas" you support came from his advisors, which is fair game... what scares me is that I don't think he needed advisors to come up with the racist and sexist bullshit.

My personal opinion, but to me this is the real Trump, while the "competent businessman" is his showbiz facade.

So yeah, there is a chance his advisors do a good job. If he lets advisors pick his advisors. If Trump picks bad ones, or doesn't listen Trump style, well, nothing really is the best anyone can hope for.

Also, expect advisors to be regularly fired and changed. Say anything Trump doesn't like? He will fire your ass immidiatly. Again, working from the known past of Trump and how he dealt with people telling him the uncomfortable truth (for example that many of his investments were bad ideas, which turned out to be true in the end)

But you know what? See for yourself. You have now 2 years to find out if the guy you voted for really is as competent as you think or as bad as the others think. Discussing NOW what Trump will or will not do is pointless. As far as I am concerned, he is a human random number generator.

I just hope for the guys that didn't vote for Trump that they find a new home in Australia, NZ or Europe should the worst happen, even though the conservatives are on the rise worldwide.

Oh my fucking god, can we please get past this bullshit of the lying media? this horeseshit has gone on for way too long already. Like before we can even get to any sense of rational debate, it all comes back to the same fucking thing of how the media is lying.

This is really getting to a point of no return at this rate.

I mean like it's going to we want trump voters and supporters to look like the poor beaten up guys here, who cares about the minorities who are threatened by every racist group in America that are now getting super high off of Trump.

Not until the media reforms. Did you read about the ammount of collusion that happened between Hillary's campaign and the cable media outlets?

There's clear bias/corruption in what they report.

I showed you a video of Trump supporters getting attacked (Which is becoming not-too-uncommon occurance really) and your response is "But what about the minorities who MAY be attacked!?".

All live matter, etc. If you care more about a minority possibly being attacked more than someone who actually was attacked, congradulations, you're a Senator Robert Byrd, and Clinton approved racist.

Good job. You've now accused me of racism because you managed to find videos of random Trump supporters being attacked. "OH YOU DON'T CARE ABOUT THE WIDESPREAD HATE AGAINST TRUMP SUPPORTERS! YOU'RE ANTI TRUMP SUPPORTER! RACIST!" Good fucking job. Way to pretty much prove the point being made here. Good job my alt right man, good job. Since you cannot defend Trump, why not call his critics racists. Accuse the other guy of racism.

I'm willing to bet you have no stats, no sources at all. But why should this surprise me? The entire Trump campaign was about bullshit. Bullshit that you desperately want to believe.

You know what, we're done here. You and every other Trump voter out there has a habit of just throwing random shit in our faces from unknown sources when y'all are unable to find any good argument. Do not bother replying to any of my posts. You've made your point: the system is rigged against you. You're the poor marginalized fucks in this country. Well, now we are all equally fucked. I hope you can enjoy your 2 minutes of joy.

Like I said, don't even fucking bother replying.