Fortunately, not all religious people feel that way. However, ask a fundamentalist and, yeah, that's what he'll tell you - regardless of religion.

There appears be some deep-rooted need for belonging to a peer group that is 'better' than everyone else. "We are humble and will be saved (hence we are better than you). God wills it so". It's juvenile and idiotic but this behavior is visible everywhere: sports, religion, politics, even phone brands and operating systems.

Yeah, I've already expressed my point of view: That there is only one God, that has a Plan for humanity as a whole and for each individual, and that religions and doctrines are subsets of that plan, just like a doctor subscribes different medicines to different patients. I'm just amazed by the opposite concept, that many human beings are from the beginning nothing more than material for a furnace. Aren't their life sacred from God, as Splinter put it, doesn't the Divine Plan include them too?

[quote name='Machaira' timestamp='1297818730' post='4774745']
They're not damned because their born in the wrong side of the planet. I know the choice of religion or choice of no religion for that matter is affected by many things which the person has no control over. That's irrelevant.

Of course it's going to seem unfair to us that many will go to Hell, but our viewpoint is biased. You have to learn not to look at things from our viewpoint and it will just frustrate and confuse you. God is God and we're not. He's perfectly within his rights to completely destroy us at any time if he wanted. That he doesn't is a sign of his mercy.

I'm sorry, but all that makes little sense. What does it all mean? That some people are destined from the beginning to suffer, "just because"? If what you say is true, that being a Christian is the only way to be saved, then I have been born with a massive advantage over another person that has been born in,say, a muslim or hindu country, without having done absolutely *anything* to deserve it. What is salvation then, a lottery?
[/quote]
I realize it doesn't seem to make sense. I wouldn't say "destined", but yes, most people are on a course to Hell:


Mat 7:13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it.
Mat 7:14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

Salvation isn't exactly a lottery. I would say being born in the U.S. isn't exactly an advantage though. It's no longer really a Christian nation and the rampant materialism of this country is a hindrance to salvation. Read the story of the rich young ruler in Luke 18.

Of course it's going to seem unfair to us that many will go to Hell, but our viewpoint is biased. You have to learn not to look at things from our viewpoint and it will just frustrate and confuse you. God is God and we're not. He's perfectly within his rights to completely destroy us at any time if he wanted. That he doesn't is a sign of his mercy.

Leaving in constant fear and subservience must be fun. What I do or say doesn't matter, 'god' could destroy me at any time. I'm happy he hasn't done that already.

Black people used to feel that way once. Women, too. Religion is next.[/quote]
Way to twist what I said. We don't live in fear and subservience, obviously. The point I was trying to make is that our view of "fair" is biased and skewed. We're not in a position to judge what's fair and what's not.

I'm sorry, but all that makes little sense. What does it all mean? That some people are destined from the beginning to suffer, "just because"? If what you say is true, that being a Christian is the only way to be saved, then I have been born with a massive advantage over another person that has been born in,say, a muslim or hindu country, without having done absolutely *anything* to deserve it. What is salvation then, a lottery?

Fortunately, not all religious people feel that way. However, ask a fundamentalist and, yeah, that's what he'll tell you - regardless of religion.

There appears be some deep-rooted need for belonging to a peer group that is 'better' than everyone else. "We are humble and will be saved (hence we are better than you). God wills it so". It's juvenile and idiotic but this behavior is visible everywhere: sports, religion, politics, even phone brands and operating systems.
[/quote]
Perhaps a small portion of Christians are this way, but most will tell you to your face that they're not "better" than anyone else. I screw up all the time and I'm far from perfect.

Being a Christian doesn't change your social status. It has nothing to do with our position in this world, but everything to do with our position in the next.

haha...what do you guys think about Israel?

"God's chosen people" as stated in the Bible... just so happen to be the ones that wrote the Bible.

haha...what do you guys think about Israel?

"God's chosen people" as stated in the Bible... just so happen to be the ones that wrote the Bible.

Yea... or those moslems... a little suspicious that they wrote they quran no?

Where do babies go when they die? They don't believe in god.

Where do babies go when they die? They don't believe in god.

Google "age of accountability"

[quote name='monkey8751' timestamp='1297892584' post='4775120']
Where do babies go when they die? They don't believe in god.

Google "age of accountability"
[/quote]


So once a kid knows God and knows what sin is then they can go to hell for their sins? Is that right?

Wouldn't it be better then if people killed their babies immediately? That would guarantee the baby getting into heaven.

This seems like a pretty big loophole. We would all have a better chance of getting into heaven if none of us knew what sin was or about God.

I think the perspective that helps on some of these issues that NONE of us deserve to spend eternity with God - as soon as we're able to choose between right and wrong, we all pretty quickly discover the delights of choosing the wrong. You never have to teach a kid to lie, for instance, or to be selfish with their toys. Christians don't think they're "better" than anybody else - we know we don't deserve to spend eternity with God any more than the next person.

If "fair" is what you want then what's fair is for *everybody* to get what they ask for and spend an eternity without God's friendship - we're not slow to make it known that that's what we want. It's ridiculously gracious of God to let anybody off at all - and since he has provided a way for that to happen, through the sacrificial death of Jesus, to reject that one way he's provided leaves you in no position to start moaning about unfairness.

As for babies, I suggest you're probably just using this as a smokescreen to dismiss Christianity without giving it a serious hearing. No parent who loved their child AND loved God would think it preferable to kill their baby rather than giving that baby a chance to grow up and know the joy of living in relationship with God.

I think the perspective that helps on some of these issues that NONE of us deserve to spend eternity with God - as soon as we're able to choose between right and wrong, we all pretty quickly discover the delights of choosing the wrong. You never have to teach a kid to lie, for instance, or to be selfish with their toys. Christians don't think they're "better" than anybody else - we know we don't deserve to spend eternity with God any more than the next person.

If "fair" is what you want then what's fair is for *everybody* to get what they ask for and spend an eternity without God's friendship - we're not slow to make it known that that's what we want. It's ridiculously gracious of God to let anybody off at all - and since he has provided a way for that to happen, through the sacrificial death of Jesus, to reject that one way he's provided leaves you in no position to start moaning about unfairness.

I'm against this guilt-filled version of Chistianity, perpetuated mainly by Paul. We're human and we have our flaws, big flaws. From there on, I don't want to spend the rest of my life crying out "o God, how unworthy I am! Nothing I do or say matters, I'm just made of crap from the beginning and really, I should be destroyed right now". I'm just as God made me sir! If we're all so unworthy then ok, let's all go to hell then. God sent Jesus, and all the other prophets to earth, so he obviously thinks we're worthy of salvation. John says "God is love". "God so loved the world that he sent his own Son". Jesus at some point said to his students "I no longer call you servants, but friends". Understanding your limits and that you cannot be good on your own and asking for help from Jesus and God, being grateful when you get it, is one thing. Self-defilement is another. By cursing yourself, don't you curse one of God's creations? There is a fine line here, between berating yourself and becoming arrogant.

As for the "problem" of the babies, see what we have done? We have imposed to the faith all those whimsical rules and regulations that we do not know innocence when we see it. Has a baby eaten from the Tree of Knowledge yet? Does it feel ashamed of its nakedness? Gah...