um what, wait, if he''s been "in the industry for 23 years" wouldnt that put his first game, if at 19 , being well before the release of directX, and even windows?

Where did you get "23 years" from?

I was the guy who wrote the post about not learning Java to start with. The point of the post wasn''t that Java sucks, or C++ is harder. The point I was trying to make was that for a beginner, who specificly knows that his or her goal is to make games on the PC or console, that learning Java is a waste of time. You know your goal is to make games in Direct 3D or Open GL, or on a console, take the shortest path, don''t waste time learning things you don''t need to know. Java is good, if your goal is to write portable apps, games for the net and such, but if all you want to do is program games for a specific API or target system, it''s a detour you don''t need to take. You''ll learn everything you need to know about OOP by programming in C++, I don''t think Java is somehow going to clarify these basic concepts to someone who has trouble learning C++.

I just wanted to clear that up

I agree, I think I don''t know Java, just C/C++ so maybe I''m wrong. ...actually, I think I''m nuetral

For example, I would say that learning ASM would be good because it teaches you how to optimize well, and shows you what''s going on under the hood. Then when you move to C/C++ you will have a very complete picture of what''s going on under the hood. But at the same time, ASM is directly related to games programming. You can use inline assembly and even seperate modules with C/C++ based games.

I also say learn the Win32 API before you tackle DX programming. You need to know what''s going on.

Java is slightly different because it doesn''t relate DIRECTLY to standard game development (unless you end up using Java based scripting ) I think maybe if someone is just playing around Java would be a waste of their time and interest. If they are serious, they will eventually learn what Java can teach them with C++ directly.

Even with all of this, if I dive right in to DX coding, if I''m serious about what I''m doing, I''m going to go back and learn Win32 and ASM, otherwise I won''t be as good as I could be. ...unless I''m just messing around and it doesn''t matter one way or the other.

...It''s a lot of work trying to cram everyone into the same shaped hole...

Let me reiterate - Java is definately worthwile to learn. I don''t know why some people are so scared of learning new things?

quote:
For example, I would say that learning ASM would be good because it teaches you how to optimize well, and shows you what''s going on under the hood.

And Java is good becuase it forces higher level aspects of programming. You have to work hard not to use OO techniques in Java; OO is just more natural. Same reason that it''s probably worthwile to learn SML at some point; you really start to think differently about programming. And as we all know, it''s beneficial to attack a problem from as many angles as possible.

Try not to be so scared of the ''different''.

Only on gamedev.net can a post on Lamothe turn into a java discussion.

Mike

Well,well

It seems as my posts get quite a lot of respons. Cool! But anyway, I can''t understand why there is only one post who could provide some real discussion material.

Felisandria made two posts, the first one was alright, but the second one pissed me off. You''re supposed to be the moderator - not to be an example of how to post pure bullshit. What the f--k has my background got do with me being critical towards LaMothe? If i wanted to brag about what I do for a living - I would just make I post ''Hey look over here - I want to rub my success in your face?''. I got a REAL game programming for about 4 months ago, as I struggled quite a lot to get it - I set as a personal goal to try help other people. I found this site (gamedev) and thought it would be a good place to start, and since I saw some swedish names (yes i''m a swede - svenne it made my choice even better.

My first post - ''think before you post...'' was not ment to be hostile - just a guideline. This post was also a reflection over some personal thoughts - which people could not stand.

So there it is - I dropping this idea of being kind and helpful... I don''t care if you remove this thread or whatever.

For you swedish beginners, I''ve created a temporary mail address at Spray (you know what it is) where you can send me questions.

Here it is: babarz@spray.se

Thanks for your time
BZ

Oh, by the way Felisandria, here is were I work (www.dice.se).

bz, I wouldn''t get too upset about any of this if I where you. No matter what your opinion, if you''re going to discuss something debatable, people will debate, whether right or wrong . If you don''t feel like debating, don''t post about things that are directly debatable. You can answer all of the game development questions you want without getting in to a debate (unless you mentioned Linux vs. Windows, or OGL vs. DX, then you''re in trouble! )

...and just for the record, I personally think credentials are a good thing to have and show. Also I think it''s okay to feel proud of what you''ve accomplished and share that with people. Looks like you have a fine job. Remember, you''re in the company of people with very similar interests.

It WOULD be a different story if you said "come look at where I work, I''m so much better than you are." etc. There''s a definate line between braging and being proud of your accomplishments.

One sure way to avoid debate is to put something like "...well that''s my take on it anyway." at the end of every post

...well that''s my take on it anyway.

Geez, bz. Chill a little. Didn''t the *grin* clue you in on the fact that I was trying to lightheartedly joke with you a bit?

You were the one who accused LaMothe of having no credentials. I said you were wrong, and listed some credentials. I guess I should expect this kind of attitude from someone who admits to making inflammatory posts just to get a rise out of people, but to be honest, I couldn''t care less what you think of LaMothe. I defended him merely so that you wouldn''t scare people who actually would get something out of them away from his books.

The fact that I disagree with you doesn''t mean that I don''t like you, or that I am mad at you, or anything else. It means just that I don''t agree with you. I personally don''t like VB, but that doesn''t mean that it''s not perfectly okay for my friend Ian to use it to write games. His game, his choice. The fact that I disagree with you most certainly doesn''t give you the right to flame me. Flaming LaMothe and claiming he is some sort of wannabe newbie god who has no credentials and is "a simple fraud" isn''t "kind and helpful", it''s an attack on someone who does occassionally visit these boards. You could be a lot more constructive. Your first post is obviously flamebait and I think people here showed some remarkable restraint over the issue. I could go line by line and point out the obvious displays of your troll attitude, but I''ll just point at the last line, where you say "I could be wrong, so please feel free to discuss". I felt free to discuss, I felt you were wrong, you went ballistic. Please, don''t waste my time. If all you really want to do is start flame wars over innocent comments refuting your claims, do so in the Lounge.

-fel

>> troll attitude

Yeah that sums it up right there. I say BZ gets -1 Troll, Flamebait.


BTW- anyone notice when you load up www.gamedev.net on the image that links to gamedev.net, there is a picture of the original tricks? I like that.



---------------
Ratfest.org

Edited by - Ratman on October 26, 2000 4:46:00 PM

and the moral of the story is...

bz: Lamothe sucks.
other people: not really.
felisandria: bz, do you suck?
bz: outrageous! What do i have to do with Lamothe sucking. *You all suck. I''m leaving.

* bz''s disclaimer: if you are sweedish you do not suck.