Agree on the naming scheme.

Quote:

difficult because there is a lot of material here and no clear consensus about what we want to do...

IMO we haven't talked about much that need to be agreed on. The ideas about what earth is whether the two races were evolved from human or whether they meet while they woke up the Cryos have no meaning without a story. The story itself is what we need to agree on first. The last mention of it was the theme of guilt, but there was still no central conflict suggested for the story.

Questions regarding the cousins:
1) What age do you expect the player characters to be? I am assuming adults, but what if we take the cousins theme literaly and and make the immeditate characters all kids?

2) What is special about the human race compared to the spiritual and the techno? What are the trade offs between becoming spiritual and becoming techno?

3) What types of conflicts should arise? For the house-keeping analogy, the basic question is: "If I am the head of the house I will run it this way..." So is it gearing towards conflicts over resources and priorities and goals. Maybe the spiritual is more concerned about the big picture, prefer long term stuffs, while the technos are more concerned about the immediate, and like quick, instant fixes, and how technos don't give a damn to some values that spirituals have and vice versa? And the human is always caught up in the middle.

4) For the kid version there will probably nothing bloody about it, it can be humors all the way. And the adults can always fix everything at the end...? yea right. In some sense the kids world is a miniature/parody of the actual political conflict. The adult world can bear all the scary stuffs about how the first world ended and how the techno and spirituals got divorced. Kids don't need to know those... or should they?

5) The revelation can be about how the spirituals cannot deal with the problems that techno can and vice versa. How they are both important for the human in the middle to survive. And how the three are ultimate bound by love but expressed in different ways.

Quote:

Original post by sunandshadow [Edit] Oh sorry, forgot - Also, I think each of our three races should have a different type of names: the humans should have 'real' names like Jaqsin (Jackson), the spirituals should have meaningful names like Sasafrass, and the Technos should have euphonic names like Vyella.

Sasafrass? Kinda like "Howl Together", eh, sunandshadow?

Well, it looks like we have something good coming along. I think the concept art for the spirituals look great. I perticularly like the third one with the funky hair.

I like the cousins in a house analogy, sunandshadow. I also like Estok's ideas pertaining to the floppy disk analogy.

Sunandshadow: Did you plan on posting the design doc you're working on here in the forums? I think it would be good to take a look at.

-TJ

I think that we should look at things in a broader sense. Instead of narrowing things down to a very narrow and limiting story which most of us are doing more and more it would be nice to make the possibilities broader.

For instance, why just have the humans all from one time frame and why have them all the same age. I think that if things are diverse and rich the story will benefit heavily. When creating a new world and a new future for this world keep in mind that everything that transpires has as many views and as many different events happening as happens everyday of your life. I think its better to create the illusion that many things are happening rather than just telling things one way and with one set of structured and simple events.

I also think that the reason the two species evolved should be, that humans simply went out in search of new life and new planets to explore and most forgot about earth through wars and disagreements, through dislike and religious strife. Out in the universe somewhere there are a group of humans who kept all the customs and traditions and have all the diversity in values as we do only things have changed and been added to for a few million years. Its a broad picture of the universe that is more believable than saying that the humans race was about to be distroyed and they put all their knowledge into a few hard drives and sent them with colonies.

Estok I think that your making yourself the speaker for humanity and saying that we would all agree to one course of action and it sounds like you don't plan on giving details as to why humanity seperated and what exactly happened to allow the two races and their culture and customs to be created. I realize that this is only a broad generic overview of the actual story but I mean come on think outside the box.

As far as naming goes, I believe that the humans should have names that reflect the popular names of their times. Such as someone from this day and age would have christian common names. Others from the future should have less common names to this day and age but still names that we know of that people do have. You should also allow for the diversity in the world today such as choosing names from other cultures and languages. Perhaps a spanish name or a french name something along those lines.

I'm saying this because most story writers ignore all the points of view and focus only on one. It is completely understandable when writing a main characters experiences but when creating a world it is a weakness.

I hope that you all agree with me.

Quote:

I think that we should look at things in a broader sense. Instead of narrowing things down to a very narrow and limiting story which most of us are doing more and more it would be nice to make the possibilities broader.

This is exactly what I have been saying, but not just about the story itself, but about the development. The narrow stories that I have with single endings were attempts to tie the many features that we want in one story. The features that we listed in the beginning did not derived from a single goal or purpose. Together they are just a bunch of features, put together because some wants this specific thing and some want another specific thing. The way I see that the story gets developed, is that we first agree on one story line, the main one. If we cannot come up with one decent story, we have no basis to setup a world setting for multiple endings.

Quote:

Estok I think that your making yourself the speaker for humanity and saying that we would all agree to one course of action and it sounds like you don't plan on giving details as to why humanity seperated and what exactly happened to allow the two races and their culture and customs to be created.

Who else gave details on why they were separated? These are what we need to talk about that we haven't.

Quote:

I realize that this is only a broad generic overview of the actual story but I mean come on think outside the box.

All the ideas I posted so far are existing ideas in movies. Again, I posted those because no one even put anything in the box yet. All we have are the faces of the box, namely the two races and human, the two races evolved from human, and one is spiritual and one techno. What holds the faces of this box together? Why do we want these faces? What do they represent? Before we find other glues that can put this box together, do we know that the glue even exist?

Quote:

details as to why humanity seperated and what exactly happened to allow the two races and their culture and customs to be created

Quote it again. These are the questions that we should be dealing with. Does the settings make sense? What conflicts do you envision? What are some stories (complete plots) that you can derive from the setting? Is the settings too limited to allow multiple endings? Do we need to change the settings?

I see the development as a tight feedback loop, so i didn't expect us to just come up with a setting in day one, without knowing any viable plot for this setting.

I am up for refining any glue that can put the box together.

Referring to your glue:

Quote:

I also think that the reason the two species evolved should be, that humans simply went out in search of new life and new planets to explore and most forgot about earth through wars and disagreements, through dislike and religious strife. Out in the universe somewhere there are a group of humans who kept all the customs and traditions and have all the diversity in values as we do only things have changed and been added to for a few million years.

Did human get cryo-frozen? Why are they able to maintain the same traditions for millions of years? (Look at how much we have change in just 500 years). Evolution (as in changes) does not take that long to take place the colonizers, because the process is not done by mutation and natural selection (darwinian evolution is extremely inefficient for our story i think), the colonizes have tools, they don't rely on darwinian evolution to change, and so you don't need milion years apart. Is the milion years apart just for the new races to forget earth? The use of Floppy disks in my glue was to deal with this information lost. What about the gathering? what made the three races come together once again?

About my floppy glue:

Quote:

details as to why humanity seperated and what exactly happened to allow the two races and their culture and customs to be created.

When the natural disaster was about to strike, the scientific community believed that human would not survive if stayed on earth. At that time human had never left earth to colonize on other planets, but they had the technology for prolonged space travel. The nations join together to build two giant space ships to evacuate earth. The ships could not take everyone, and there were people that believed that the world won't end, there were those that would rather stay on earth, and those that believed that there was a solution if the scientists didn't spend all their efforts on abandoning earth. Basically the two ships drained all the last resources they could hold before they left. The ships left on separate ways in search for a livable planet. When the disaster hit, it affected not only earth but many other places in space. The two ships lost contact.

Back on earth everyone died as the scientists predicted. But the spirits of those people did not vanish, but transformed into another form of existance, an invisible form that technology won't be able to detect. After many years, one of the ship found a suitable planet and landed. The ship unfreezed the passengers, and those passengers continued to evolve (change) to Techno. On earth, the spirits were somewhat in an hiberated state, with no human bodies to possess.

Yet many more years later, the climate of earth started to settle. The second ship was unable to find another suitable planet, and returned to earth. The second ship suffered some trauma during its journey, that in fact it crashlanded on earth. A section of Cryos was unfreezed. Those human were possessed by the spirits, transforming them into the spirituals. This first section of the Cryos were mostly possessed by hungry (evil) spirits, such as fear, anguish, hatred, pain, and all those that were extremely strong near the end of the world. Unable to defeat them, the very few cryos possessed by positive spirits sacrificed to seal the evil spirits in order to give the other sections a fair chance to survive. The second section unfreezed and became the spiritual race. The spirituals have no knowledge about the history of the pass earth. But they do know the battle that sealed the evils. To the spirituals, that was the begining of life.

The third section remained unfreezed, until the archeologists arrived.

Possible plot: After unfreezing the third section, the techno gave human the options to stay or follow to techno sectors. Some human as well as some techno (The lead researcher or those that cared), decided to stay on earth. The human is helped by both races to rebuild. The PC can be a group leader of the thrid section or something, and in the process she can learn about the two races, decide whose solution to follow, and fall in love with anyone in the three races. The twist can be that the Techno and Spirituals cannot hurt each other directly, that it had to be done through a human. Possible plots and conflicts:
(You = PC)
1) you are in love with a Techno who was in charged of using human to eliminate all spirituals, and then all human
2) the rebuild required a lot of help from the techno, which made the spirituals upset but the PC is in love with a spiritual. The spiritual that you are in love with is getting pressures.
3) you are in love with a human, but the spirituals/technos are telling you that your partner is evil.
4) Your unfreezed boyfriend wants to go to Techno, but you want to stay.
5) Your mate was in section one, and you are teamed up with a Techno and a spiritual to find out what happened to him. (You might be the only key to find out where the seal was)
6) Your mate was in section two, you recognized him, but he does not recognize you. You want him unpossessed.
7) The Technos evolved but some of them still have the old memories (immortals so to speak). You found out that your mate had become a Techno.
8) You are possessed by a treacherous spirit, and is totally ready for any evil deeds muwahahaha.
9) You are possessed by a holy spirit, who had been patiently waiting for the treacherous one.
10) Two spirits are battling over you, making you want to be a Techno.



It is just a collage of existing stuffs at the center of the box. I am hoping that you guys will come up with a plot that proves that the settings make sense after reading what I posted. I think that the current settings do not make sense until someone can fit a decent plot on it.




suggestion:
anyone uses mIRC? anyone wants to chat instead? :/

[Edited by - Estok on September 7, 2004 7:07:41 AM]

more question:

In the design doc first paragraph, it said that there would be tools and skills for the player character to master. What kind of constant threats or problems that would require mastery of tools/skills to solve?

Alright well as far as the setting goes and how I think that we come to it from nowadays.

The world as we know it advances in many directions for a few more years. The deveopment of flying cars and quicker transporation methods using electrical and plasma fuels. Along with these advancements the world is much closer as people learn to put aside differences by following a few key figures who publish monumental campaigns to unify the diversity of the human race. Customs cultures remain vibrant and political activism allows for more able politicians to be elected into many governments offices. The middle east and militant groups are subverted by a world intelligence agency created mainly by Russia, Europe, and the US. With the advancement of other nations into space exploration NASA and the Russian Space agency along with newly developing China through a seperate agreement and additional comercial enterprises create a unified space exploration agency if you want you can call it USEA. This agency begins to offer comercial resorts and other space tourrism. Around the year 2100 marking the 75th anniversary of the USEA they offer a full round trip from earth to Mars lasting over a year. Where you get to vacation on the surface of Mars and embark on scientific experiments already going on on the surface of Mars.

A few years following these expensive ventures to another planet putting humans on two celestial bodies in this vast universe, there is the finding of other M-class planets or Earth-like that are within long range distance of earth. A dozen new ventures set out to launch a few colonial/scientific voyage vessiles cabable of cryogenically freezing their occupants and reviving them upon arrival. The revival process was still very accident prone at the time even the ships themselves where not completely wear proof to the hazards of space travel. Comet tails and asteroid belts could go un detected on the path to these new found gardens of eden.

As time went on more and more new technologies erupted leaving the hundred year voyage of those first colonists in the wake of larger more sophisticated space ships. Able to map out billions of lightyears in every direction and avoid hazards. A few of the early comercial deep space exploration crafts are found to have been distroyed and some were left lost in the vastness of the void of space. Those planets first thought to be colonizable and similar to earth proved to be toxic to humans due to a unknown chemical compound that went undetected by the probes sent years ago. The and a few of the planets were found to be uninhabited although some of the most advanced colonial ships had been sent from Mars millenia ago. Earth was all but abandoned as word from across the skies announced rich new larger planets with abundant new life and new oppurtunities. There are those that stayed on the home planet of these deffiant beings who lept into the stars. Those were the remnants of a people whose diversity and conflict fueled the creation of technology enough for them to transend their animal form and colonize the universe. As the millenia passed and the planets population dwindling with each new planet discovered. The technology of space travel grew and money no longer was an obstical for those left on earth. The exciting new challenges and the thought of traversing the stars excited all but a handfull of people still left on earth. Those that stayed made little towns and cities gathering together forming close societies and rejecting the thought of space travel. Many of the technology lost upon them and some held the custom of discovering all the secrets that the earth gave.

There came a time on this almost devoid planet where it began to change again. The tech tonic plates began to move and this time the change was evidently a global shattering one. The continents began to break apart in places and volcanoes errupted. Abandoned cities and towns were covered or engulfed by magma. Those that still survived either died or if they still had the technology they used it to secur their bodies in cryo-frozen capsules safe from even the most deadly attacks of nature. These capsules were burried deep within molten rock and even inside these capsules noone but those inside knew how to activate the doors that were sealed by an ancient means using locks and keys religiously created. And others sent out distress signals to long lost ships and colonial vessales that would still be enroute to their destinations. And to those already on other planets. But before the signals of primitive radio could even escape the solar system all were devoured by the changing planet. When the dust settled the earth was completely void of life on its surface. Only a few bacteria and larva of previously deep underwater creatures existed. From these new life would be formed.

As the years past millions of years in fact. Other species far into the distant universe from the roots of humanity but changed by the new enviroments and the technological advances used to move through the stars and collect their wonders recieved a tranmission. It took a while to decode the scarse voices within in the cry for help because there own means of comunication had advanced considerably from the past. These first two species to recieve the distress signal located its orgin and one through legend and old computer data desided to seek out the hiden truth that the planet seemed to scream. The other through faith and guidance of visions given to them as they believed by their ancient ancesters also sent a missionary type vessel to setup a temple upon the planet and discover what knowledge it's spirits were calling out to give.

These vessels reached the planet in only a few years time and finding each other began to become perplexed by the fact that they were no alone in the universe and that another species as old as each could exist and understand the call. Each first thinking the other had made the distress call but later discovered that it was the call of those on the dieing planet. They located themselves seperately and coordinated efforts only in the smallest degree simply because they were so different and the adaption of two cultures who believed themselves to be alone as sentient life in the universe was hard and took many years. Further unnerving was the discovery of the first cryo-genic chamber in the ruins of a city where the lights still glowed from a anti-matter generator. And the creature that called herself a human did not live long and little was learned but there were others that still slept in the laboratories of both species until an accident would awaken them so that perhaps they may uncover the mysteries that time has created.

5mintue:

That is definitely more details, and here are some questions associated with it:

0) In summary, The spiritual and Techno were evolved from the occupants of two vessel. They mutually lost contact, but both received the death signal from earth to return.

1) Clarification: after most people left earth, those living on earth had both technology and magic, and there were two kinds of sealed humans (by different locks).

2) Technology usually advance exponentially. Why allowing them millions of years to advance? Just for earth to regen? What do you envision the Techno race to look like? Do they still have a human-scaled form?

3) After the first cyro vessel is sent out, won't you expect there to be newer ones designed afterwards that would reach the destination faster and beating the original vessel and making them obsolete? It is possible that by the time an oldvessel reaches its destination, the planet is already inhabited by the evolved civilizations from a faster vessel.

4) More central questions: What type of conflicts will the human face? What is a possible plot that this setting leads to? How do the uses of the three races necessary and make the plot unique?

5) What are the mysteries involved? I assume that the fact that the two new races had a common ancestor was not a mystery. Do you have the mysteries in mind prior to having this setting or vice versa?

6) How is this experience significant to the human?


Concept art
Techno Mayan Priest Avatar - Techno no longer has a humanoid form. The hovering drone IS the Techno, which is usually invisible. The avatar is just for show in order to interact with the human and spirituals that still have a humanoid form. They avatars are dressed according to the customs or an adpatation of the customs of the human and spiritual races. If someone is still interested in seeing historical attires it can be realized through the avatars.

[Edited by - Estok on September 7, 2004 5:57:27 PM]

Quote:

Original post by TraderJack Sasafrass? Kinda like "Howl Together", eh, sunandshadow?

Lol, I forgot I had used that name in a story already. The sasafrass just happens to be my favorite kind of tree because they smell wonderful and have yellow leaves, so I always thought it would make a great name for somebody blond, especially if they were also 'sassy'. ;0

Quote:

Well, it looks like we have something good coming along. I think the concept art for the spirituals look great. I particularly like the third one with the funky hair.

That's interesting, I was just thinking his hair was actually more 'techno' in style. I like the frost electra one's hair, the body of the civillian, and the clothes of the mayan priest avatar one - hey Estok, can you make a drawing combining those elements, with a gothic makeup look to the face?

Quote:

I like the cousins in a house analogy, sunandshadow. I also like Estok's ideas pertaining to the floppy disk analogy. Sunandshadow: Did you plan on posting the design doc you're working on here in the forums? I think it would be good to take a look at. -TJ

Am I working on a design doc? o.O I wrote a features list, but I wsn't really planning on making the whole design doc because I'm rather short on both time and story ideas at the moment.


Here are the thoughts I have after reading the last several posts:

- Let's not go with possession because I think it would be too hard to implement in terms of gameplay. Also it's difficult to be attracted to someone who doesn't have a mostly human appearance.

- A romance requires characters who are 18 or older, so no children. Let's try to keep the characters in the 18-30 range, at least in terms of appearance, who knows how long future people live?

- 5minutegaming, does the history of how everyone got to the planet really matter? It seems pretty boring to me. And isn't the point of having the pc dropped into a new world that that character doesn't have any baggage to impose onto the player, and therefore the player can put more of himself into the pc? So no romances or grief left over from before the cryo-ing.

- I personally find death and sickness distasteful so I would rather leave them out unless you all think it's important to put them in.


Well, having shot down several ideas, I feel I should contribute some new ones so I'm not just being negative...

How about:

- We need to show at least one major npc who is a techo discontented with being a techo (my minor villain?), and one who is a spiritual discontented with being a spiritual (a female, not the major villain), and that will be how we show the limitations/problems of each society.

- Some people seem to be assuming an adventuring party system a la the ff games, while I was assuming the player would only control the avatar a la vagrant story or a mmorpg, because I think this setup lends itself better to creating deep npcs, which several people said they wanted. Which do you all prefer?

About concept arts:

Quote:

I like the frost electra one's hair, the body of the civillian, and the clothes of the mayan priest avatar one - hey Estok, can you make a drawing combining those elements, with a gothic makeup look to the face?

I will think about what gothic mean, I have been looking at those but I don't quite get it.

Owl of Decay - Spiritual/Techno Avatar. Derived from owl, garuda, nightelf, lich king, fork, fang, Orochimaru seals.

Here are some gothic images of Grima Wormtongue from _The Lord of the Rings_ for reference. Aside from the pale skin, the shadows around the eyes seem to be the key thing to drawing the look.

Grima1
Grima2(scroll down)
Grima3(scroll down)

And here are some geishas for comparison
Geisha1
Geisha2