1) As long as OpenGL is implemented properly, most code should work on all cards that aren''t too old. I''ll avoid talking about D3D since this is a sensitive topic.

2) The lack of interest is due to lack of home use, but I doubt Windows will control gaming for very long, one way or another. As for the critisism, well, he is insulting an OS that he has no clue what its about. Please at least use something before you insult something.

3)
1) {Insert MS ridiculing here} 2) Yes, it is, but I doubt they are creating a new OS. If they are, maybe(as in I doubt very much), they can try to get it right, the first time(or any time ).

As for console gaming business, its a totally different market, which I doubt MS will dominate (w/o unfair business tactics), but time will tell.

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A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

quote: Original post by ImmaGNUman

1) As long as OpenGL is implemented properly, most code should work on all cards that aren''t too old. I''ll avoid talking about D3D since this is a sensitive topic.

2) The lack of interest is due to lack of home use, but I doubt Windows will control gaming for very long, one way or another. As for the critisism, well, he is insulting an OS that he has no clue what its about. Please at least use something before you insult something.

3)
1) {Insert MS ridiculing here} 2) Yes, it is, but I doubt they are creating a new OS. If they are, maybe(as in I doubt very much), they can try to get it right, the first time(or any time ).

As for console gaming business, its a totally different market, which I doubt MS will dominate (w/o unfair business tactics), but time will tell.

-----------------------------

A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

1) theoretically . You also have to consider speed (generalized code is not optimal), and unexpected software emulation.

3) well at least admit a possibility is there well consider the idea that for some people, win98/2000/95 work perfectly for them and never crash. and some people have frequent crashes. theoretically if microsoft makes it work perfectly for one xbox, it will work the exact same for everyone''s xbox (which is the exact same). its then up to the developers to write bug-free software. Microsoft will then extensively beta-test all xbox software, just like sony does and when bugs do surface, microsoft will take the blame.


I myself will not say that i believe ms will dominate the console market. I will say i dont know. I''m somewhat skeptical about the hard drive, and running programs from the harddrive which you can download from the internet. this will introduce fragmentation, cluttered hard drives, viruses, unauthorized xbox games, and pirated xbox games. huge mistake?

-cmaker

quote: Original post by Gaiiden

if anyone''s been following the XBox, i think the real reason it could hit it big is because of it''s development approach. The thing has that 8Gb hard drive sitting in it, which allows quicker loads than from memory, and it uses a stripped down Windows OS with DirectX. (at least I think its a stripped down Window OS, correct me if I''m wrong) Anyways, how sweet is that? With Playstation 2 you get handed an SDK that is totally different than the last one for the Playstation thanks to all the new hardware, and you have to learn it first to program it. And even then it''s just documentation, so the first games out may not take full control of the system since the programmers haven''t learned or discovered all the tricks, shortcuts, and backdoors to push more speed and graphics out of the thing. With XBox, everyone knows DirectX (I mean, it''s Microsoft, come on..) so the first games will be as kick ass as the rest. If anyone wants to argue, go ahead, but I think I''m being pretty valid here. I can''t wait to see if this things lives up to gamers expectations.

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First off I have yet to see a hard drive that offers faster data rates than RAM (maybe a solid state harddrive that came close but cost a few grand). Second programming through an API rather than in machine code is normally slower. Granted you may have to code more. I think DirectX is a twisted mess of API that only Microsoft could come up with. While the X-Box may have the PSX2 bet as far as hardware if all of this extra windows and directX stuff become to bother some consumers might as well just by a Desktop computer. The fact that it''s Microsoft''s doesn''t garrenty great games.

Anonymus:

You didn''t read some more. I was corrected and did admit to my mistake saying that a HD access is faster than RAM. I unfortunatly have the bad habit of not reading over my posts and I meant whatever media the console uses (cartridge, CD, DVD, etc.), not memory. Since I was thinking of the HD as a form of temporary extra RAM for a game, I got mixed up.

Anyways, now that I''ve been burnt to a little crispy fritter by Vetinari''s flame-thrower, can I back up and ask everyone why they think the XBox will be a mini PC sort of thing. Putting everything else aside, for now, and focusing on this one topic of discussion please - what makes you think they will churn out a console.... damn, I can''t even explain this without putting myself infront of Vetinari''s sights.

Allright, I got off on this whole thing when I heard someone mentioning the idea of sticking Linux on an XBox. So then I got to thinking that a lot of people thought they could access this thing like a PC. I mean, unless you hack into the box, how could you install Linux? And why go through all the trouble? I mean, installing patches wouldn''t even have to be done manually, just doenload off of the net through the XBox''s modem right?

But all I''m trying to point out with this argument (about XBox pc-likeness) is that a console by definition should not allow any user tampering with its innards. You pop in the disk (cartridge, whatever) and hit the power button. Boom. You play. Anyone thinking about installing programs or stuff like that should purge those thoughts, cause it can''t be true.

Ahhh... screw it. I know I''m gonna get flamed somehow. I''m just tryin to clear up this issue. Unfortunatly, the XBox, because of its unlikley qualities, will forever be plauged with gray areas like this until it''s finally released.

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\\// live long and prosper; \||/ die short and rot.
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How much difference is there between the DXSDK for the XBox and the DXSDK for the PC? As I understand it, DirectX 8(\9?) will be the same between them. If the OS is a modified for of CE (what i''ve heard) then will we have to know the CE API to generate a window register etc.? Or will we be able to go sraight to DirectX?

I heard from someone that the XBox will be compatible with Win32 executables, so PC games can be put staight on an XBox. I doubt this very much, however.

Gaiiden: I can understand why you are looking for clarity in this subject. I don''t Microsoft have given too much away yet...



-=[ Lucas ]=-

Yes, PC games will be extremely easy to port onto the XBox, but they won''t be able to be played on the XBox (like you cab play PS games on a PC).

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\\// live long and prosper; \||/ die short and rot.
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quote: Original post by Gaiiden
Anyways, now that I''ve been burnt to a little crispy fritter by Vetinari''s flame-thrower...

There is no excuse for some of my responses. I have realized I am comming off as mostly an asshole on some of my posts, and I will work to correct that. I do not intend to come off insulting, just direct and to the point.

quote:
But all I''m trying to point out with this argument (about XBox pc-likeness) is that a console by definition should not allow any user tampering with its innards. You pop in the disk (cartridge, whatever) and hit the power button. Boom. You play. Anyone thinking about installing programs or stuff like that should purge those thoughts, cause it can''t be true.

This is NOT intended to be a flame, but you have me horribly confused. This is exactly what I thought a console should be, but now that they are adding a HD, not only do you have to mess with the innards, but you also install games. This is why, in my last post, I asked the general question of what purpose the HD will server in the XBox, and I asked if it is really an advantage.


Mike

I imagine the install process will be completely hidden from the end user. If you''ve ever played a Dreamcast game, whenever you start one up it takes a while for the game to load. So I''m thinking that an XBox would use that time to copy some data to the HD so that only the first load time would be long, and each time afterward would be relatively fast. And it could obviously be used for save games...

Epolevne

Well, I just got through reading this incredibly long debate over MS and SONY, X-BOX and PS2, apples and oranges, he said and she said....Personally, I''m a devoted Playstation fan because they produce a good product with a reasonable price and decent software; that''s all I''m really interested in. If I were going to marry the freakin'' thing, I''d probably spend more money, but I''m not buyin'' the ring so, why worry?

My main point for this entire situation is that without a semi-open forum for games, you''ll never see the really classic games put out by small firms, the "Pulp Fiction" of the gaming world. However, without certain limitations placed upon the game designers, everyone would be making games and selling them and hacking them and copyright infringing them and...so on and so forth. Also, keep in mind that even a incredibly poor-quality game requires a little funding to get off the ground (I don''t care what Robert Rodriguez says, El Mariachi was made with more than the $5,000 pocketlint he''s claiming; even Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels cost near $2 million....)

Look, all I''m saying is this; you can''t have good games without some level of competition, and you can''t have good games without some level of financial backing (and God save me for admitting this, but Bill Gates is living proof that you can throw gobs of money at a problem and it will get fixed....)

Ultimately, it''s a question of how much you, the player, the CONSUMER, like what you buy and if you don''t like it, talk to someone in the producing company, find out some names and send them some little notes like this one, opinionated and informed....

quote:
So I''m thinking that an XBox would use that time to copy some data to the HD so that only the first load time would be long, and each time afterward would be relatively fast. And it could obviously be used for save games...

Yes...but although 8 gigs is large, there is a limit considering the size of games these days. I''m not sure how large the size of the disc the XBox will use, but I assume at least 640 megs. Quick calculation yeilds 12 games or so if the installation is large. Many people own many more than 12 games, so management of the HD then becomes a large burdon. Yes, my calculations use quick and dirty numbers, but you see my point.


Mike