First off let me apoligize for writing that really crappy post (I must have still been a bit drunk). I also get a bit emotional when I see stuff like 'most' of windows problems are the hardware. I also don't know jack about SONY outside of consoles and tried as hard as I could not to imply otherwise (which is why i specificly mentioned nintendo).

Yes I don't like MS, nearly all of my posts to this board have been on MS. My anti-MS sentiment started long before I read any anti-MS propoganda (it started the first time I used the slow,bulky incredibly inefficient windows 3.0). Mabye my expectations for a 7th or so generation product (win2000) are a bit high. I mean, I expect it to be stable enough that MS would use its own product(according to this: http://www.infoworld.com/articles/op/xml/00/08/28/000828opcringe.xml). My favorite quote being from an ex-MS empoloyee "Internally when Windows 2000 was announced, people were told not to even think about using it for production because it was too unstable".

I will probably have this attitude until MS doens't force me to pay for things that should be bug fixes, and prioritizes fixing fundamental issues over adding worthless code-bloating 'features'. I see no reason why having a bias should prevent me from replying to an obviously biased original post.

And I'm just curious, but if you don't expect MS to follow the standard console scheme, how do you think they will make money?

Mike

Edited by - Vetinari on September 2, 2000 11:14:55 AM

quote: Original post by Vetinari

And I''m just curious, but if you don''t expect MS to follow the standard console scheme, how do you think they will make money?

#1: They already have enough money to buy a small country.

#2: They''re making plenty more from PC software.


"If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away" --Henry David Thoreau

Personally I don''t think that the X-Box will change the scope of console gaming very much, because if you look at it, the brunt of the developer support is coming from PC developers. Console only companies are still primarily focusing on the traditional consoles, it''s the PC companies that are mostly being affected by the X-Box. They''re the ones that are excited by the console-like properties of the X-Box, but console companies on the other hand aren''t as excited about the easier development environment because they''re used to having to deal with new and sometimes obscure hardware, documentation from Japan, and a lot of other problems that most PC developers arent used to. Most of the PS2 games coming out in the next little while already show a lot of improvement over the crap from the launch, and if you follow consoles you''d see that it''s a very normal occurance with consoles.

I think the X-Box will probably cut into the PC market, with some games being X-Box only, some being PC only, and some being both. In effect, it will be like having two semi-competing platforms. Just like most consoles have competition from at least one other system during their lifetime, the X-Box and the PC will duke it out, while the traditional consoles go through their usual life cycles, but I doubt that they''ll ever affect each other too much.

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- outRider -

"First off let me apoligize for writing that really crappy post (I must have still been a bit drunk). I also get a bit emotional when I see stuff like ''most'' of windows problems are the hardware. "
thats an often said remark ,true win2000 is very stable ive only had about 10 crashes in the last 6 months , compared to 10 a day with win98. but the thing is i run linux on exactlly the same hardware and its never crashed , apps do also kde does but the os has never crashed in a couple of years.
this is my experience (and i dear say everyones), now when i read posts from ppl saying that the reason MS os''s crash is cause of hardware or driver problems i think hmmmm so cro-magnon still wanders the earth.

i dont think the xbox (why is everything an X nowadays directX mac osX , X window etc) will catch on the reason being is console owners are not gonna tolarate the console crahing on them, if it does they ''ll say f this piece of junk im going back to the psx

They won't tollerate crashing consoles? Hmm that pretty much takes the Playstation 2 and Dreamcast out of the picture. The playstation 2 crashed every 5 min at the GDC, not at one booth but any booth that showed it off. Now keep in mind this console has been out in japan for months so saying that it wasn't ready is no excuse. And sony's track record for producing a quality console is not very good (how many people have to place their psx upside down in order to get the games to run?). Now with the PSX2 running so hot it needs to be shaped like a car amp to dicipate the heat, that only adds to the problems of the console.

However it doesn't matter how much better one console is over another, but who develops for it. And developers will go where ever the licencing is better. This was proven when nintendo and sega lost most of their developers to sony when the playstation came out. If microsoft offers a better agreement than sony, nintendo, and sega then they will get developers. Microsoft can undercut just about anyone except sony in this picture because the console market is not their sole buisness. They make enough money with their other products to make up for any loss based on attracting developers. Sony can probably hold it's own but it's going to have quite a war on it's hands. Nintendo is pretty content with it's loyalist's game sales. Which is why they realy don't care how many developers they lost to Sony. Pokemon, Mario, and all the other games they have will still sell and most are owned by nintendo so they aren't going to any other console. Sega is keeping alive with it's arcade games, 90% of the money they make isn't based on console sales or game sales, but on all the quarters people stick into their Arcade machines. It's going to be an intresting year as far as consoles go. We'll see how it turns out.

Edited by - evaclear on September 6, 2000 9:06:26 PM

What happens when people start to put Linux on Their XBos''s, amd use it as a cheap computer. You know Microsoft is LOOSING money on the console and only sells it in hopes of making money off the software.

Also, I will tell you NOW!,
WHEN THE XBOX IS OUT, IT WILL BE UNDERPOWERED!!!

Has everyone seen the pace graphics power has gone lately, surely you have. a new product every 6 months from NVidia, and whos knows what "killer" product 3dfx is making to win back the gamers,
All Im saying is if Micro$oft ever pushing it out, it wont meet the hype.

I have to give Credit to SEGA for actually releasing their console which is almost PERFERT. and is a lot like how microsoft wants XBox to be, but Dreamcast doesnt have a HD to fail

We;;. those my thougts, Im sooo tired from school Im typing thing with my Keyboard stretched to my bed to dont even read this(maybe I should of said that at the top),
later,

Uuhmmmm, how can people put Linux on an XBox? This thing is NOT A PC, it''s a console. You can''t access the hard drive and you can''t load your own software. It''s a totally closed environment, like all other consoles out today. I we all know Microsoft would never put Linux in its machine, even IF hell were to freeze over. Tho since Esap was half asleep, I think I can let him slide for that.

And as for evaclear, I don''t know how he can stand by his argument for no OS cause of the billions of parts made for PCs and how they cause all the bugs. Uhm, let me say this again - the XBox is NOT a PC, therefore it won''t have to support anything more than what''s in the box, therefore hardware confliction problems once the box is released will be nill (with the exception of any add ons, which may cause problems if not fully tested, and if there''ll be any).

You people have to stop comparing a Windows PC OS with a Windows console OS OK? The console OS will have to do nothing more than support the hardware in the box as well as the DirectX. That''s it, nothing else. If you get a lot of bugs out of that, then Microsoft can''t test worth crap.

As for the developers and the PC\XBox thing, I really wouldn''t worry about it. There are games for both and games for one or the other thanks to the amount of control available. The XBox only gives you one controller, while the PC has a keyboard, a mouse, a joystick, etc. Certain games just simply wouldn''t be appropriate for the XBox. And game developers will have no reason to straddle the PC/XBox market because there''s no reason a consumer will by both games (PC and XBox) that are the same, so profits won''t change much. Therefore not too many games will be ported, and the XBox really won''t step over the PC (especially thanks to the PC''s abaility to outpace the XBox within a few months).

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\\// live long and prosper; \||/ die short and rot.
==============================

People fit Linux on a wrist watch, I doubt it would be hard to put it on the XBox.

-----------------------------

A wise man once said "A person with half a clue is more dangerous than a person with or without one."

to Esap1 (and anyone else willing to buy an XBox just to put Linux on it):

take a look at the Indrema. Native Linux, a graphics card also made by NVidia (but the GPU is on a slide-out tray for future upgrading!), HDTV out, both coax- and DSL- broadband outputs. For those complaining about the XBox only having one type of controller, there is a wireless keyboard for the Indrema.

Oh, and Indrema is putting a large hand in helping out the OpenStreamtm Video Project.

But with the future consoles coming out, (and with past releases of consoles as well), I''m waiting until the good games come out, and based on which games play/look the best, I will decide then on which console to buy. I''ve never been one of those "gotta be the first guy in the neighborhood to have system X" until it has been proven to me that system X is the best in terms of quality.

The one thing I like about Microsoft and Linux joining the console race is that now developers have a base system they can program for, slap a "optimized for XBox" or "optimized for Indrema" label on the box, and be secure knowing that there are a large amount of systems that will reliably run said software. At the same time, the user sitting at home with a machine that is comparable to the hardware in these consoles will (hopefully, depending on how Microsoft plays it (though Indrema already plans this)) be able to get a compiled version for his/her machine without having to drop the money on the console after dropping twice as much on his/her PC.


"Man is the only animal that laughs and weeps; for he is the only animal that is struck with the difference between what things are and what they ought to be."
        --William Hazlitt

to ImmaGNUMan:

I think the reason that Gaiiden stated it would not be possible to put Linux on the XBox is the commonly held belief that the OS will not actually reside on the hard drive, nor will there be a traditional boot sequence (traditional meaning the kind you would find on a PC), therefore you wouldn''t really be able to have an XBox with Linux as its sole OS, since upon powering up the XBox will probably go straight to loading the M$ OS.

(Though someone may try to do one of several things, such as 1) putting a Linux emulator on the XBox (but then you''ve still got the MS software underneath), 2) putting a Linux kernal on there that somehow takes all input and bypasses the Windows functionality (feasible??), or 3) soldering a chip to the board that bypasses the boot-up of the Windows OS and reroutes to a sector on the hard-drive that contains Linux (I really believe that there are some people out there crazy enough to do this))

Before considering any of these (or other) options, I urge you again to check out the Indrema. If you are really willing to revoke your warranty AND waste money just to have this OS on an XBox (wasting money b/c I''m sure Microsoft will figure in the price of the OS into the price of the console, and you''re just routing around it).... go ahead, but I can almost guaruntee that the Indrema will be a lot cheaper than the XBox (less marketing, free OS...)...

And since the hardware on the Indrema is comparable in quality to the XBox (even exceeding in some areas), I think it really is a system to consider... again, I''m gonna be shopping around before I buy anything, but until then I''m going to try and spread the word about the Indrema being in development so that it doesn''t die from lack of market exposure.

"Man is the only animal that laughs and weeps; for he is the only animal that is struck with the difference between what things are and what they ought to be."
        --William Hazlitt