I made a tetris game the first time I tried, in DOS16 using mode 13h with my own graphics library that I made by copying, pasting, and improving code from about 5 different books I had. It used simple rectangles for everything, had nice smooth input (pressing and releasing a key 'too fast' couldn't happen for ex) , but I never got sound working in DOS so it used the pc speaker which really sounded bad. It only took about a week to make, but it was very simple and didnt have difficulty levels or anything like that (would be easy to change the delay it used though) and sometimes the line-removal code messed up(I think I knew how to fix it but I got bored long before I discovered that bug).

I found it much more fun to make an action scroller space game. It took a lot of work doing all the 2d collision detection, especially because at the time I hadnt even taken geometry or algebra so I didnt know the formula for an oval or cicle (which is what everything was made out of in the game). I learned how to use cos & sin to generate a position on a circle but I didnt know trig then so I didnt realize that it was PI that the numbers were based on and it really confused me since I thought it would use degrees, but after reading a cliff-notes type review on trig I got that all fixed up, and made it a full game with 2 different kinds of enemy ships, a boss, powerups, stats (ammo left, time played, enemies killed, shields, score), a nice wanna-be particle system(they didnt have velocity, acceleartion or anything fancy like that, and the lifetime was 1 frame =-) for thrusters on all the ships. There were even cheat codes, a title screen, an ending, and a death animation. Using cheat-codes disabled the ending and instead it called you a loser when you beat the game =-).

I made the space game before I tried tetris, and that could be why the tetris game was easy, but I dont think so. Tetris is a simple game. Sure, it might be 'interesting' to try to figure out how to optimize piece representation, but its not really that fun to play afterwards. It was thoroughly entertaining for me to play my space shooter in its whole when I finished, and it was more fun to watch my parents, friends, and cousins play it and then to tell them that I made it. It wasnt anything big, but it was simple and they liked it (at least enough to play a few times =-) and so did I.

At the time I made the space shooter, I was fairly new to programming, especially game programming. I learned a LOT from it, and I could learn a lot more by trying to write an MMO (tho not rpg in my case). Maybe I'll finish it like I did my space game (which ended up way past my expectations), or maybe I'll fail miserably and find out that its a LOT harder to write a 3d engine than it is to make a 2d game since in my game there was no space partitioning because there was no space to partition. The screen was the playing field. More likely is that I'll find it much more difficult and struggle to read as much as possible to learn how to overcome whatever difficulties I face. It is also likely that my game will end up being 'merely' multiplayer and not massivly multiplayer. Perhaps it will end up only supporting 2-4 players. I'll still learn a lot if the end result falls short of my expectations. I've been 'trying' to start on it for some time but I couldnt focus, so I spent some money on some books instead of surfing online since I can read them in school and wherever else I have free timeand won't get distracted so easily. Hopefully once I get into the project I'll be able to focus more easily. That is what happend when I made 'Alien Space' =-)

If anybody wants the source and/or binaries for the 2 games, just send me an email at cprgmsw@rietta.com and I'll try to find them. I have far too many backup tapes/cds/disks =-/ And tape backup is SOOOOOOOOO slow to find and extract files from =-/


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[edited by - Extrarius on April 14, 2002 11:54:02 PM]

I''m not saying to go out and make another tetris. I was simply using that as an example for beginners to start out with as opposed to a full blow mmorgp. Extrarius is a perfect example of starting small. Thats all I wanted to say. It doesn''t matter what type of game you make, just as long as you start small. Thats all. I didn''t know this would stir up so much hatred! Geez.

That of course is sensible advice, but not everyone is sensible! =D Some people in fact are smart enough, and have the drive enough to do something big as their first project, but in general most people don''t. And the people who do usually don''t come here asking for lots of help. We shouldn''t blast newbies for wanting to do something big at first though, but instead nicely point them in another direction. The drive and desire to make something really cool is of course the drive and desire that got us all into being game programmers, right? =D

-=Lohrno

Good point, Lohrno. I shouldn''t have been so harsh.

RegularKid: I _DIDN''T_ start small. I had NO CLUE what I was doing, I _BARELY_ knew C, and I had no clue why half the stuff I tried worked (cos and sin for example). At that time, for me, starting small would have been tic-tac-toe or maybe something where you have to repeat keystrokes after the computer shows a pattern. I had just figured out how to do graphics in DOS, and only by using a premade graphics library supplied with the compiler in 640*480 * 16 color mode. And I wasn''t the only one working on the program either. There was a friend of mine that worked with me that I was teaching programming to (don''t forget that I barely knew how to make text programs at the time, and I didnt know the language at all. I didn''t even know how to open/save files so there was no highscore or anything like that). We only had 1 ''dev pc'' so we didnt have to worry about keeping the files synced or anything like that because we took turns programming it. That makes it a LOT harder because you have to figure out what the other person changed since it was your turn to program, and you might have to change the way you were going to program something in because of those changes.

I shot for something way over my head and I reached my goal! Exceeded them even. Maybe thats abnormal, but I think that by setting your goals way above your head, you''ll at least learn that you did so if nothing else. =-)

Hey, don''t feel bad. W''re only ripping at you because this is an odd place to choose to "inform the newbies" of their "misguided ambitions" and need to "set their sights lower". If you had posted this in the For Beginners forum it would have been much more appropriate (or even the Game Programming forum), though the response might still have been similar. A quick look through just the recent topics in this forum reveals a general concentration of thoughtful developers trying to push the envelope, and a post as presumptuous as this is quite offensive.

Yes, there are the silly ones who can''t type but want to make Dark Age of Camelot. There will always be (and I therefore can''t understand this need some people - like you - have to be the one to tell them that they''re in over their heads). Allow them learn on their own; they''ll look back one day and laugh at themselves, but will be the better for it.

When I was eight years old I wanted to build a remote control care (with zero knowledge of electronics) and asked my dad what went into cars. He said something about spark plugs and aluminum, so I started collecting spark plugs. I''m sure he thought it was funny, but he always found me more dead plugs for my collection (I think I gave up when I cut my hand on a piece of scrap aluminum that was supposed to be the hood for my RC Corvette...). Years later I still tell it as a dinner joke, but those kinds of experiences got me interested in how things work. Now I''m a decent programmer and amateur electrical engineer.

So let the children play.

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Thanks to Kylotan for the idea!

Man am I embarrased. Seriously, sorry for the stuff I stirred up. I honestly meant for the post to help the people that are in over their heads. Now that I see my mistakes, I apologize to all and hope nobody is too pissed off. Oluseyi, you''re right:

quote:
So let the children play.

I admit that I''m not a programmer but in the most loose definition of the word. I can write some simple Java SWING gui applets but that''s about it As for C++ I''m more in the understanding phase than the writing phase, and since I''m teaching myself, the progress is slow.

But this is the Game Design forum rather than the Game Programming forum. I think this category is for those who have ideas for gameplay rather than coding itself. Mind you, without some kind of programming knowledge, I think it becomes diffucult to seperate the "doable", the impractical and the impossible. So, even though my programming skills are near non-existent, I have a general understanding of what can and can''t be done.

I also fully realize that it would take years for my game idea to come to fruition due to it''s complexity. Actually, I''ve had several ideas to help progress my game. First off, I''m going to make it open-source so anyone can contribute and give feedback. Secondly I will create two "prototypes". The first prototype will actually be a miniatures game. It won''t be on the same scale as the computer game, but I hope to incorporate at least a few elements. Hopefully this will at least give me a rough idea for playbalance. The 2nd prototype will be a much simpler and more abstract 2d game. I really just want to test out certain ideas like my AI control...so I''ll use it in a more limited sense to at least see if it works.

I''m basically using my game as a learning tool. My ideas are big, but I''m going to take lots of small steps to get there. I have no unrealistic ideas about how long it will take my game to make, or if my idea has this immense "cool" factor. This is a personal goal of mine I set for myself...if other people would like to share in it...all the better.

It''s ok! You were trying to give some good advice, I can''t fault you for that! =D

(but maybe the For Beginners forum might have been more appropriate! =D) I at least am definitely not mad at you.

-=Lohrno

I think everyone here agrees with you that MMORPGs are not a hgood first choice for newbs, if you look through many of the threads started by newbs who talk about having "great new ideas" and "need help getting started" you''ll notice that there''s always at least one post in there about the high probability of the project flopping. And that they would do better to start small. Just remember we were all newbs once, when the ideas start flowing there is so much adrenaline and excitment about it you think anything is possible. Eventually you''ll learn to just grit your teeth and not be as bothered by these ambitious and zealous newbs.