I like how native Americans were taking care of nature. They were killing only as many animals as needed. They were asking the killed animals for forgiveness. And they were trying to use every single bit of the animal. Tried to not throw nothing away. They were believing spirits of their close ones were living in trees and rocks.

Now, compare this to cats - cats hunt for pleasure. Even if the cat is not hungry, it can kill dozens(hundreds?) of small animals. Cats kill for practice and/or pleasure.

What is better for nature? Native Americans respecting nature, or cats that kill anything that moves even if they know they are not gonna eat it?

Robots with GAI are superior to humans. humans are superior to animals. The claim that humans are superior to animals does not necessarily involves the urge to hurt animals for some sick kind of pleasure.

Many people are boolean. “If i say that humans are superior to animals, this must mean i torture puppies”…. LOL Boolean logic - "There can not be a reasoning that satisfies both worlds."

Adam was superior to animals, but he was told to take care of animals. Boolean people need an extra bit of clarification.

NikiTo said:
I like how native Americans were taking care of nature. They were killing only as many animals as needed. They were asking the killed animals for forgiveness. And they were trying to use every single bit of the animal. Tried to not throw nothing away. They were believing spirits of their close ones were living in trees and rocks.

Nice. But are those the kind of people that would invent climate control as you propose we should?
Or is it more likely the kind of people that invented steam machines and firearms and killed all the natives?

I'm not as optimistic as you are, concerning ability of modern humans to live with nature in economy.
I also doubt native americans thought they would be superior to animals, while the modern human does so.

NikiTo said:
Robots with GAI are superior to humans.

NikiTo said:
Boolean people need an extra bit of clarification.

Yes, i also think you need some bits or bytes of extra clarification, mister virtual cyber zero/one human of the future. :P :D

I think you, @joej are more illogical saying that animals are equal to humans, than me saying that humans are superior to animals.

If you just say honestly - "i love animals", i would not be so disturbed.

It just makes no sense to claim humans are equal to animals. Humans invented so much. It makes sense to not admit the superiority of the humans over the animals. If you run naked in Africa, lions will eat you. Humans eat animals. Where is the problem? We was just clever to automatize farming. Notice, whales automatize fishing too. They use webs of bubbles to can eat a lot more than if they were fishing one by one. Whales already use webs(made of bubbles). What makes you think if animals had the means of automatizing hunting, they would not do it?

Pay attention to harems in animal kingdom. Two males are fighting to death hitting their heads in order to determine who can own the females. I have never heard of a male in nature letting half of his harem go with the new pretender. Animals fight to death for every single female in the harem. Doesn't it look to you like greediness in humans? Most of humans would never share. They want it all. Just like animals. What makes you think if some animal species suddenly discovered a brain, would not get rid of humans or farm humans in farms?

I don't know how native americans would have evolved if not massacred. I don't know it. But i believe humans can co-exist with animals and technology in complete harmony.

In the movie - "I am mother", Skynet got rid of all the humans. But it got a single one and educated that human to start over a better society. A better Earth. If you remember, Moises intentionally walked through the desert for 40 years in order people with old mindset to can die out by natural reasons(almost natural reasons).

Humans are pretty capable of being good. But the whole society needs to change. There is egoism in the air. Egoism and greediness fed by some of the individuals. These individuals take key positions of high power and they decide how humans behave as a whole.

Humans need a cleanup. And that cleanup must be peaceful and fair. It must start from the educational system.

In case i am not explaining myself well, i will give an example, although this example is not moral, but it just serves as explanation of that 40 years of cleaning the population -
Take a group of newborns. Take scientists and move them all to a small village that is separated from society. Separate the village from the outside world. No internet, no phone, no TV. Every bit of information is local and selected by the scientists. The scientists teach the kids to become humans of very high moral and communal thinking. Then, the scientists allow the kids to meet kids from more villages while the rest of people - these who are corrupted by the outside world are sterilized.

It is just an example to explain how to clean up humanity. I am not proposing the thing of the villages.

Because GAI is superior to humans, it should offer a service to humans and help them. GAI could take control of the social media and block the likes of Gaming THOTs on Twitch and like the content of bloggers who produce something with their hands. Could promote bloggers who craft real things in their garages. And GAI could use Deep Fake to create persons of cult, the sheep can follow as an example. Nowadays, our idols promote easy money, easy fame. The new deep fake idols will explain how they studied for years and worked hard to "get there".

It can be done.

Look at all these banner in the style of “make 5000$ in one hour with this EASY trick!”. This what our society puts as a goal. As a model to follow.
GAI can take all these banners and replace them with - "study in engineering to build the future".

GAI will be able to parse the big data of the social media that a single human or even a large team of humans can not handle.

AI can use total surveillance to catch criminals. In order for “both worlds to be glad” the video data must be parsed by AI only. No humans involved. This way, no serious privacy concerns should arise.

There are many ways to do it. And it can be done. The general picture is super pessimistic. But this doesn't mean it should not be attempted. You ban all of the people. And the worse is that you do that by comparing humans to animals. Imagine a 10 meters high 5 tons cat… would kill us all for fun.

If is super easy to get rid of all humans.

What you want to do is to pull form the plug of the computer.
What i want to do is to debug the program. It is the worst spaghetti of all. But it should be debugged. Don't pull from the plug!

GAI should try to fix humans. And only if humans prove to be immensely evil by nature, GAI could eliminate all humans. But GAI must try to debug the mess first.

If nothing is done soon, humanity is doomed.

Not to mention that you alone lack the computation power to judge the whole 8bln humans on earth and to can draw a conclusion. Only GAI can handle all that data and decide.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/chuck-feeney-the-billionaire-who-gave-it-all-away-1.3413084

NikiTo said:
I think you, @joej are more illogical saying that animals are equal to humans, than me saying that humans are superior to animals.

Sounds reasonable, but i did not say they would be equal. I think humans belong to the group of animals, but animals differ from each other.

NikiTo said:
If you just say honestly - "i love animals", i would not be so disturbed.

I do not love animals, and i do not fight for their rights. I try to fight human overconfidence, disrespect and collective self deception, as well as putting belief and conviction over general knowledge (which is that human = mammal).

No matter what i say or don't. You would be still disturbed. :P (sorry - could not resist.)

JoeJ said:
Sounds reasonable, but i did not say they would be equal. I think humans belong to the group of animals, but animals differ from each other.

Biologically, humans are animals. And many humans behave like animals too. But humans are superior animals thanks to their brains. There are humans who are more savage than some animals and animals more human than some humans. Overall, humans are animals that are very superior than the rest of animals.

Imagine you are an alien visiting Earth. Would you pay attention to rats or to humans? Ofc you would pay the most attention to the most intelligent life form on the planet. Which is humans.

Anyways, i wanted to find a difference that is not quantitative. Something that is ONLY present in humans and in no other animal.

Aliens can communicate by telepathy. Humans can not do that. It is not like humans can do a very little bit of basic telepathy. No! No telepathy at all for humans. Only for aliens(ufologists on youtube say).

JoeJ said:
Now how does this help us to make Terminators and Robocops?

I don`t know. I stopped following the Terminator franchise. My last Terminator was Terminator Salvation. To continue the drift: there is no such thing as `Reality`. Reality is just a simulation. If you would be locked inside a prison cell in complete darkness and in no contact with the outer world for days, your brain would still update the `outer world`, the outer world as you understand it is a simulation running inside your brain, when you watch news there is a syncronisation between the sim in your head and the `real world`, when you turn away and mind your job, the simulation of world and the people you know keep being updated in your brain even if you have no contact with anyone, i.e. you`re in a prison cell. Though the problem with being locked away is that you can`t keep track of time so you can`t properly update your sim. We don`t count time like computers, we approximate it based our movements (or movements of other people/objects), sounds from the environment etc, take that away and you go insane.

Ok, I have something.

No other animal than human feels ashamed to be naked. Only humans use clothes because they feel ashamed of their genitals.
I have seen animals using clothes, but not because of the reason of being ashamed.
It sounds silly again to quote the bible, but after the sin, the human felt ashamed of his nudity and covered his genitals.

I came up with this, after listening an youtuber talking about Nier Automata. He talked about how robots in Nier Automata try to use clothes to look "more human". Could be the opinion of the youtuber, not necessary the reasoning of the developer.

Animals are hardcore exhibitionists -

Now i think this thread is solved. I found something only humans do and no other animal does.

What i meant was: ‘How could the discussion help to make better game AI?’ I thought that's the motivation behind the question.

Calin said:
I stopped following the Terminator franchise.

I wonder why it is so often mentioned in relation to AI discussion, although it's just an action movie. But maybe it's mostly NikiTo who brings it up the most.

NikiTo said:
No other animal than human feels ashamed to be naked. Only humans use clothes because they feel ashamed of their genitals.

No man! My dog…

ok. you won the thread.

JoeJ said:
I wonder why it is so often mentioned in relation to AI discussion, although it's just an action movie. But maybe it's mostly NikiTo who brings it up the most.

Because it is the most popular classic in AI. And half, if not more than the half of the popular discourse of pop-CEOs is talking about Skynet. Exactly Skynet, not Halo9000, but Skynet. Not Cortana from Halo, but Skynet. I just adapt to the pop-culture here.

When i mentioned Devs series, nobody reacted like he watched that series. But everybody knows about Terminator.