14 hours ago, alnite said:

You are saying as if we had other choices to choose from.

Yes, there was another choice, the other choice was the one who wasn't obviously a racist who hadn't espoused obviously terrible policies.

14 hours ago, alnite said:

We were presented with two choices that neither was good.

Neither was good is true, but one was clearly much worse than the other. 

14 hours ago, alnite said:

Hillary and Clinton Foundation with her history of receiving illegal political contributions, corruption, and being huge allies of the media. Bernie Sanders, which I thought should have won the Democratic primary, got burned by the DNC-Clinton-MSM mafia real good.

Let me equally preface this by saying I'm NOT a Democrat. I'm NOT a Republican either. I identify liberal, but beyond that I have no party association. If your point is that Hillary was a shady and unpopular candidate, we've already established that. The DNC did not like Bernie Sanders. Not surprising, for a variety of reasons, but this was fairly well known. 

No, Hillary was not popular. No, Hillary was not a paragon of virtue. She had many scandals. But beyond a point, many of the stories about corruption proved to be false. The whole fever pitch about the emails, the BS uranium deal, etc. But yea, Hillary had many scandals, a lot of baggage, etc., I won't deny that. I myself think Bernie may have made a better candidate.

The DNC did not project a good candidate and did indeed have internal corruption (Donna Brazille, etc.), nor did they prefer a good candidate, but I'm really tired of hearing about the whole "MSM". The "mafia". The whole "conspiracy". This has been pushed repeatedly by Trump, with little evidence of it being true. 

We can sit here all day arguing about Hillary vs Trump on the basis of who seems more corrupt but it's ultimately irrelevant as to 'who's the more corrupt candidate', because of the following.

14 hours ago, alnite said:

Why are you presenting the election like it was black and white?

One was clearly espousing dangerous, racist, xenophobic rhetoric that essentially worked on demagoguery. The other wasn't. This is a black and white choice because of that fact alone. Only one candidate claimed that Mexicans are criminals and rapists. Only one candidate advocated for a Muslim ban and a Muslim registry. Only one candidate repeatedly and regularly attacked the free press and critics. Only one candidate continually pushed the racist notion that Obama was not an American. Only one candidate showed authoritarian tendencies. Only one candidate. Just one. Not two, not three, just one. That candidate was Donald Trump. Not Hillary Clinton, not Bernie Sanders, not John Kasich, not Jeb Bush, only Donald Trump. 

Then there's more on policies. A border wall was and still is idiotic. Tariffs were and still are absolutely idiotic. Notice that I haven't even touched Republican core platform ideals here. I don't even need to comment on Trump's really checkered history with all sorts of financial inconsistencies and corruption, nor the ACA repeal, nor the tax cut to paint this as a black and white choice as you keep claiming it wasn't. 

Hillary's policies did not even begin to reach this level. I don't even need to talk about who's corrupt and who isn't to posit this fact. This alone should damned well be enough. Yes I keep presenting this as black and white because of that clear distinction alone.

14 hours ago, alnite said:

Many people didn't like both Trump and Clinton. Even the Republicans were surprised Trump could win their primary. I listened to the local Republican talk show during the primary (disclaimer: I am NOT a Republican), and whenever they got people calling in, they would ask them who they would vote for. Some say Kasich, some say Ted, and very very few would admit they'd vote for Trump, which was received with snickers and laughters like it was a joke. This was among the Republicans. He was never popular to begin with.

This isn't about liking or loving Trump (which some people definitely did and do, but certainly not all): it's about the fact that somehow people were ok with voting for someone who is a racist, as @ChaosEngine put it.

There isn't name calling going on here (in this thread at least from myself and others), there isn't any demeaning going on here, it's just us pointing out this simple fact and it's something that many of us find difficult to get past.

14 hours ago, alnite said:

Now that he won, the party just had to shrug it up and back him up. Kinda like having that dumb colleague in your office who happens to be the CEO's son, who keeps writing bad code and badmouth everyone. You sat there, sigh, and fix his crap. In a company, you can just quit, but you can't just quit your political party because you too got way too many friends in the party. I feel like that's the state of the Republican party right now.

No, that's a false equivalency. You can absolutely quit a party. I'd argue that quitting a company is somewhat more difficult because your livelihood depends on it. If so many people didn't like Trump when he got nominated, why stay in the party? But ok, let's leave the party bit aside, since a strong argument can be made that other alternatives do not exist that are viable. But why vote for him then, if he's so reprehensible? The fact that he got nominated certainly seems to posit that at least some people did support him, and the fact that he got votes of those who "didn't like him" is a show of tacit support. 

If your point is simply to say that not all Trump voters are racist, again, as I stated above my point is simply that, they did vote for one, and yes, I have a problem with that. I don't need to get into whether or not Trump voters are racist, and I will say that most of them probably are not racist, but electing a racist is a very big issue for many of us. 

Yea, as @grumpyOldDude pointed out, two parties are idiotic to begin with, and it's a large problem. Your point is that these people voted on policies, not Trump the candidate. That does't change the fact that they voted for Trump in spite of his rhetoric and his obvious problems. The ends don't justify the means.

14 hours ago, alnite said:

If anything, the DNC's witch hunt, accusation, Russian collusion (which really was an oversight by Obama because he was underestimating Trump)

Really? You don't think that every single person on the Trump train wouldn't have been screaming from DC to San Francisco about how Obama is trying to undermine the election if he had come out in public about the whole Russian interference thing?

As for behind the scenes, sure, Obama probably could've done more. It's unclear what went down, but again, that's besides the point really. Trump is doing next to nothing about it right now, and if anything, seems to be really close to Putin.

And, how, might I ask, is this the DNC's witch hunt? If anything, it's the FBI's witch hunt now, isn't it? Moreover, the intelligence services that all concluded that yes, the Russians did indeed interfere and did prefer Trump? And all the guilty pleas accumulated so far, all the information we've already received (the Trump tower meeting, the George Papadaouplous indictment, etc.) are all a witch hunt? 

14 hours ago, alnite said:

calling Trump voters racists, insults, antifa, all of these behaviors are making them closer to Trump even though they didn't like him in the first place. The Democrats are more obsessed about Trump than the Republicans! Why can't they just suck it up, and vote better next time?

Trump hasn't proved himself to be a paragon of virtue either, nor has his leadership been anything worth spitting on. Sucking it up with a leader like Trump is really difficult for anyone who didn't vote for him. 

I'm sure there are people who call Trump voters racist. There are fringe movements that are radical on the Liberal side of the spectrum. I don't endorse name calling nor insulting people. Many people don't endorse it. The whole notion though of 'you made me do it!' is a fairly weak argument at the end of the day for why you continue to support Trump and proclaim to not be a racist. If you voted for Trump, but don't support his open racism, simply don't support Trump and don't vote for anyone who does and that'll be the end of the story. That continued support in spite of that is absolutely an issue and people will point out that "you are supporting a racist".

Trump's election has made it such that even less contentious issues from before have become more contentious, that is absolutely true, however, on the flip side of the coin.

I am not sure about this, but in some democratic countries the president can veto legislations to the limit where his words don't matter anymore.

I believe that the president works as a CEO in a company. He is the face of a country, and the punching bag for all the disasters that happen. It's either republican or a democrat, does not matter actually, because over the years they balance each other out, and what we have is the trend moving somewhere straight no matter what candidate is the president. 

If you want to know the truth, remove all that is changing, and leave what is immovable, that is the part which is running everything behind the scenes. And it's not a conspiracy, it's just the way evolution and growth works. We as a culture move this graph, and presidents only have to do very little. All his councelors actually help him make the decisions.  Next time democrat wins, half of Trump's changes will be removed and the new candidate will put his changes into place.  And it happens to be a game nothing else. 

5 hours ago, gloven said:

Next time democrat wins, half of Trump's changes will be removed and the new candidate will put his changes into place.

Really? They’re going to remove the Supreme Court judges trump appointed? phew... I was worried there for a minute. 

5 hours ago, gloven said:

And it happens to be a game nothing else. 

Tell that to the kids separated from their parents at the border. 

5 hours ago, gloven said:

I am not sure about this, but in some democratic countries the president can veto legislations to the limit where his words don't matter anymore.

I believe that the president works as a CEO in a company. He is the face of a country, and the punching bag for all the disasters that happen. It's either republican or a democrat, does not matter actually, because over the years they balance each other out, and what we have is the trend moving somewhere straight no matter what candidate is the president. 

If you want to know the truth, remove all that is changing, and leave what is immovable, that is the part which is running everything behind the scenes. And it's not a conspiracy, it's just the way evolution and growth works. We as a culture move this graph, and presidents only have to do very little. All his councelors actually help him make the decisions.  Next time democrat wins, half of Trump's changes will be removed and the new candidate will put his changes into place.  And it happens to be a game nothing else. 

Having 2 parties that are given absolute power being expected to balance one another out instead of play good cop bad cop (good and bad being relative terms because you can't please everyone all the time.) and grift everyone is naive on the part of the people and the root of most of the problems the US is facing right now.  Domino's is paving our roads, people.  We pay 1/4 of our earnings in taxes and the counties/cities/states can't afford to fix pot holes, a pizza place has to do it, even if it's just to keep people from getting snippy on yelp and make themselves look better they seem to have a better grasp on infrastructure than the current secretary of the interior.  When we inevitably devolve into a full blown militaristic plutocracy where corporations are not only legally people but able to legally run for office (give it at least 18 years for the law to have been passed and someone will try it.) I am moving to wherever Dominos gains a foothold, with their thorough understanding of the works of authors such as Niccolo Machiavelli and Thomas C. Hobbs they undoubtedly know both the power of garnering favor and fear from the populous.  Dominos/Ceasars 2044, the campaign slogan is "You did this"

I am calling it now and asking you to disregard this post.

5 hours ago, ChaosEngine said:

Really? They’re going to remove the Supreme Court judges trump appointed? phew... I was worried there for a minute. 

I'm actually kinda scared about how that's gonna turn out...as is currently, things look really dark on that front. That is something that could affect us for decades to come. I haven't heard any new news on the latest nominee. I wonder if this'll be confirmed or if it'll fail.

It's also worth taking a minute to acknowledge the difference between someone you disagree with politically and someone who is just a train wreck of a human being.

I didn't agree with John McCain, but I respected him. RIP.

Yeah, I mean, McCain supported the 2003 Iraqi Invasion based on completely fabricated data about WMDs, which threw the country into complete chaos and gave birth to ISIS, but I think we all agree debating issues such as whether to bomb brown countries is something we Westerners can do in a civilized manner, agree to disagree, and not throw slurs at each other. That's what matters. The rest of the world is just pieces of a RISK game anyway.

This overplayed video is just one instance anyway, because McCain probaby decided at that point that the whole madness about "Obama is a terrist" that he himself(and to a much greater extent his running mate Palin) participated in was getting out of hand, was not to his benefit and had to be contained somewhat. Or, alternatively, wanted some nice footage that could be used to prove what a decent human being he was and how he was totally not part of the whole "Obama is an Arab terrist/muslim/communist/Satan" thing. Example :
 

Gee, I wonder where his fans got the strange idea that Obama was a terrist?? Where *did* that guy with the cap heard that Obama "cohorts with domestic terrorists"? Good thing old American Hero McCain set them straight and explained to the old lady how Obama is not an Arab, but a decent family man.

22 hours ago, ChaosEngine said:

Really? They’re going to remove the Supreme Court judges trump appointed? phew... I was worried there for a minute. 

 

Tell that to the kids separated from their parents at the border. 

Yeah by posting i haven't accounted for these issues the current administration has to work with. So i am sorry for that. I was trying to state a different point, that sides do not matter. 10 years can be a huge dip of immoral actions and the fall of the nations, the next 10 years can be the heavens of political correctness and utopian democracy.

In 50 years, it does not matter what did who, one candidate is too small of a problem in the history of a country, even more the world. It's impossible to make everyone happy, i think people going for presidency are plain crazy, they know they can't fix things, especially when a human being is observing the world subjectively. I'm entertaining the idea that short term results,, good or bad, are necessary for the long term evolvement of the nation.

Right now everything seems not like we want it to be, but i know that after 10+ years we will know why it was done. We can only see the pattern when we look into the past, not while it's happening. I am not defending anyone, i believe in bigger goals, trumpism is a short term hype and it should go away as people withdraw their emotions during the next election

1 hour ago, gloven said:

In 50 years, it does not matter what did who, one candidate is too small of a problem in the history of a country, even more the world. It's impossible to make everyone happy, i think people going for presidency are plain crazy, they know they can't fix things, especially when a human being is observing the world subjectively. I'm entertaining the idea that short term results,, good or bad, are necessary for the long term evolvement of the nation.

Yeah, the Manchu, Iriqoui and Ottomans all really prove how people's actions don't matter.  Prussia has been killing it lately.  Seriously, certain actions can have consequences that are irrevocable and everything has a finite time in existence.  One guy shooting another in a bar started WWI, which had a big budget sequel.  A bunch of wealthy Brits that didn't want to pay taxes started the US in hopes of gaining more money.  A bunch of Wallstreeters, southern dandies, trust fund brahs and the Russian mafia seem to be liquidating the country for the same purpose.

I agree one man can't ruin the US via the presidency all on his own, he would need support from a vocal and mobilized minority who believe that he holds loyalty to them and are willing to offer it in return as well apathetic skepticism and/or hope from a majority of the population.  This has been kind of a slow burning fire and a long time coming.  We kind of set the stage for this with the 2000 election and the erosion of rights and wars fought under false pretenses of the Bush years that culminated in nothing more than a collective "oopsie daisy" from the US as we elected a guy who was socially the polar opposite, but governed almost exactly the same when it came to every policy but gay marriage.  At least the other 2 figureheads didn't pander to literal nazis, but the fact that the current one does is probably a feature not a bug.   

That said, to answer OP's question, I think calling it "Trumpism" is a misnomer.  It's something that has been set into motion and ongoing for 20+ years and it will most likely last until the United States Balkanizes in the mid-late 21st century when these peoples decedents make the real life Gilead they are striving for across the rust belt.  Trump on the other hand will last as long as he serves a purpose to his owners, then discarded and replaced by another charismatic mouth piece who will most likely pander to the "morals and values/ de degewecy!" crowd.  As long as his sex scandals get more and more outrageous and people talk about that and his Russian friends instead of the wars and the gradual cutting off of funding for anything besides military spending, the bulk of which goes to contractors owned by influential people to manufacture weapons and military vehicles, with their replacements being sold to other countries of private interests, we will have this special little man in office. This is why nationalism is dumb.  I've had a happy life in the US for the most part but if push comes to shove will Sound of Music my way on out of here and to wherever looks better without a regret.  The people in charge, or at least a sizable portion of them (look up the Evangelical group based out of DC called "the Family") don't think of me or most of the other people here as real humans, just statistics with wallets.  Really as part of the modern "peasant class" the most effective thing you can do is not to spend money, or more realistically as little as possible.  Make what you can and get an off grid setup.  Having a job like coding where you can work remotely or freelance makes it even easier.  If enough people just didn't play their game they would essentially turn into that kid on the playground that thinks he's the coolest but everyone else just ignores. 

TLDR; sorry for the nihilistic essay, but single actions can have immense and irreversible effects.  If you decided to just knock a support beam out from under a roof and caused it to collapse you wouldn't just wake up and have it be fixed.  Instead of your house and a beam lets call it the country and international relations.

Did anyone read the op-ed piece in the NY Times by an anonymous Trump administration official?

It seems there are actually people inside the administration that have been considering removing Trump from office due to his unhinged, immoral, and reckless behavior.  I guess if Congress wont do their job, there is still another option.

We can only hope that one way or another this insanity ends.  Every day is a new embarrassment for this country under Trump.