2 hours ago, Gian-Reto said:
Because the results they want to see are just the other side getting riled up and running around like headless chickens. Because they want to see Trump stomping all over the real republican politicians. Because they want to see him cause havoc in the established political circles, no matter if democratic or republican.
No doubt about this that many a voter just wanted to see the "Left" (and I'm starting to hate the notion of "Left vs Right", it only serves to undermine the whole point by making this a "us vs them" argument) go crazy. And no doubt that is exactly what's happening.
2 hours ago, Gian-Reto said:
An on that he certainly delivers. If that is going to prove positive for ANYONE in the US outside of some people getting a chuckle out of it... I have my doubts. But I am sure at the moment many who voted trump are pretty happy with their vote. Because their protest hit home.
As of this moment, it isn't doing any good. Mainly because he hasn't done anything other than throw public tantrums, lash out at people, and generally run a reality TV show in the White House. But the point about certain voters is quite well noted.
2 hours ago, Gian-Reto said:
Now, I think longterm it will come back to bite them. Because their protest missed to send a message to the other side. More importantly, I don't think the left is even willing to listen. This will not end well for anyone if the left now kicks some anti-trump and anti-right machinery into high gear without even trying to understand WHY Trump made it into office... which is just as much the fault of Trumps voters and right demagoges as it is the fault of some left extremists constantly trying to rile up the other side (not saying the rightwing extremists are any better here).
In the end, the Trump voters are also part of the US population. The key to getting the white house back and maybe uniting the country just a little bit will be to understand what SOME of the more moderate trump voters want, and offering compromises they can get onboard with.
With the current political climat in the US, on the left and on the right, I have my doubts this will happen within a decade. It would involve the republicans moving closer to the mid AND the democrats doing the same. I will certainly not hold my breath.
There's a reason I hate this whole "Left vs Right" thing so much: it really is just a way to throw around BS. I don't much care whether the guy in charge is a Republican or a Democrat. What I care about is that the guy is at least moderately competent. Donald Trump is not competent by any objective standard. There are all sorts of issues about this guy that people refuse to see and simply turn it into a "Left vs Right" argument. It's infuriating. And it's not good for anyone, since this is not about Left or Right, or Liberal/Conservative, or Democrat/Republican. It's about competence. And he has no competence. Any argument otherwise is simply just delusions.
There are tons of theories about why Trump won, and depending on who you are, you believe one or the other. IMHO, Trump won mainly because of the vote in the so called "Rust Belt", which had been Clinton's so called "Firewall". Their issues have been discussed quite a bit on this forum, and I'll only add one more point here: there is no solution to 'saving' jobs. There are other solutions out there, but not 'saving' ones. Those jobs were gone before, and will only be more gone now. The problem is only going to expand as time goes on, due to technological advancements that will take jobs. We've discussed these issues quite a bit too. Do Democrats need to address these issues? Certainly they do.
But reality is that Trump is basically a snake oil salesman: he's selling snake oil as a remedy for all when it doesn't actually do anything.
3 hours ago, Gian-Reto said:
In the meantime, IDK how much of a difference it makes if Trump is still in office after 2018 or not. The people who voted for him will not be gone once he is replaced, just as the people now complaining about him will stay. He is the symptom, not the cause of all this antagonistic climate in the US politic and society.
I do agree with this to an extent: no Trump doesn't mean that this Pandora's box will suddenly be closed: it's been opened and there's not a ton that can be done about that.