I'm pretty sure we already had the discussion about saying that "demographic X is less disadvantaged than demographic Y", still doesn't invalidate the disadvantages experienced by members of demographic X...

I'm pretty sure we already had the discussion about saying that "demographic X is less disadvantaged than demographic Y", still doesn't invalidate the disadvantages experienced by members of demographic X...

You are correct. The key is always in the implementation.

If a white middle class father have to pay tax, and thus unable to buy a PC for his white son, while the tax money is then used for 'girls in gaming' by giving PCs to girls whose dad drive Ferrari - what do you make of this?

i hope this doesn't derail the thread, but what do you make of latest panama papers leak, specially in case of tax evasion? So the middle class (which pay taxes) actually support + prop the rich? rent seeking and wealth transfer is a thing, sadly.

As they say, the proof is in the pudding. Look at the end result. The cancellation of this talk and the observation by @phantom tells something. Whether people with agenda like it or not.

If a white middle class father have to pay tax, and thus unable to buy a PC for his white son, while the tax money is then used for 'girls in gaming' by giving PCs to girls whose dad drive Ferrari - what do you make of this?

I assume that you have evidence that this happened?

If a white middle class father have to pay tax, and thus unable to buy a PC for his white son, while the tax money is then used for 'girls in gaming' by giving PCs to girls whose dad drive Ferrari - what do you make of this?

I assume that you have evidence that this happened?

That question are theoretical question.

Evidence, no. But I heard complaints from certain part of the internet which I consider believable and reasonable.

However, I'm a non-white person growing up in a village in a 3rd world country. And yet I knew Game Programming Megasite. Game Programmers 99. Internet can be accessed via cyber cafes. I've saved game dev tutorials onto 1.44 disk (thumb drive are not yet popular, or even existed then). sometimes I have to zip and span libs into multiple disks. all to learn programming. I bought sam (?) c++ starter kit 4.0 (with those yellow boxes) to get my hand on original c++ compiler.

These days if someone complain "because men" is the reason why they are not in game dev is just sad. Which is why this talk cancellation is sad on multiple level. Back then I was jumping with joy because I able to converse with andre la mothe at his xgames forum. (to know that he was ex-NASA multiplies this enjoyment).

But on the internet nobody knows that. So the word privilege is thrown a lot. Sometimes people jealousy knows no bound, no limit. That article that I linked talks a lot (also, asians are now suing for space into prestigious universities) .

Somehow related (kind of)...

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-man-who-knew-infinity-2016

"We do love our male geniuses these days." I see this will be a professional, non-snarky review that will in no way inject feminism or identity politics in a way that reveals the author's own insecurity over her own feelings of inadequacy over not being as smart as a self-taught genius whose own privilege, compared with hers, was precisely zero.

I assume that you have evidence that this happened?

That question are theoretical question.

Evidence, no. But I heard complaints from certain part of the internet which I consider believable and reasonable.

Ah, you heard it on the internet. The gold standard of unbiased facts. Carry on.

However, I'm a non-white person growing up in a village in a 3rd world country. And yet I knew Game Programming Megasite. Game Programmers 99. Internet can be accessed via cyber cafes. I've saved game dev tutorials onto 1.44 disk (thumb drive are not yet popular, or even existed then). sometimes I have to zip and span libs into multiple disks. all to learn programming. I bought sam (?) c++ starter kit 4.0 (with those yellow boxes) to get my hand on original c++ compiler.

These days if someone complain "because men" is the reason why they are not in game dev is just sad. Which is why this talk cancellation is sad on multiple level. Back then I was jumping with joy because I able to converse with andre la mothe at his xgames forum. (to know that he was ex-NASA multiplies this enjoyment).

And how would you feel if everytime you wrote a game, someone dismissed it because of your ethnicity? Because that happens to women, in fields as diverse as science and classical music.
That is an objective fact.

Somehow related (kind of)...

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-man-who-knew-infinity-2016

"We do love our male geniuses these days." I see this will be a professional, non-snarky review that will in no way inject feminism or identity politics in a way that reveals the author's own insecurity over her own feelings of inadequacy over not being as smart as a self-taught genius whose own privilege, compared with hers, was precisely zero.

Such a shame you didn't read the very next comment, because it's a fantastic rebuttal of that complete nonsense.

There are two ways to respond to the first sentence of this review. One way would be to acknowledge the truth in it, and say "Huh. I never thought about it before, but come to think of it, I can't recall too many, if any, Hollywood biopics about women. "Amelia" is the only one that comes to mind, but other than that..." And of course the other way is to politicize that statement, and say what you said, sneering the word "feminism" while at the same time taking a cheap, non-factual shot at the reviewer herself, calling into question not only her "bias"" which has contaminated her review, but her intelligence, character, and state of mind, which, as you state: "reveals the author's own insecurity over her own feelings of inadequacy over not being as smart as...." The first response concerns movies, and facts concerning them. The second has absolutely nothing to do with movies, and reveals not the reviewer's state of mind, but your own, and which is shared only by those like yourself who jump at any chance to bash a "feminist" viewpoint even if they have to invent that chance and spin it out of pure air.
P.S.- and looking at your comments, in which you refer to women as "bitches," the worst kind of bitch, you claim, "the kind of bitch that can afford lawyers," reveals you to be if not correct, then at least consistent with your viewpoints, as further evidenced in your bashing of the woman who wrote this review, the first sentence of which states the truth concerning the under-representation of women in Hollywood.

I assume that you have evidence that this happened?

That question are theoretical question.

Evidence, no. But I heard complaints from certain part of the internet which I consider believable and reasonable.

Ah, you heard it on the internet. The gold standard of unbiased facts. Carry on.

However, I'm a non-white person growing up in a village in a 3rd world country. And yet I knew Game Programming Megasite. Game Programmers 99. Internet can be accessed via cyber cafes. I've saved game dev tutorials onto 1.44 disk (thumb drive are not yet popular, or even existed then). sometimes I have to zip and span libs into multiple disks. all to learn programming. I bought sam (?) c++ starter kit 4.0 (with those yellow boxes) to get my hand on original c++ compiler.

These days if someone complain "because men" is the reason why they are not in game dev is just sad. Which is why this talk cancellation is sad on multiple level. Back then I was jumping with joy because I able to converse with andre la mothe at his xgames forum. (to know that he was ex-NASA multiplies this enjoyment).

And how would you feel if everytime you wrote a game, someone dismissed it because of your ethnicity? Because that happens to women, in fields as diverse as science and classical music.
That is an objective fact.

Somehow related (kind of)...

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/the-man-who-knew-infinity-2016

"We do love our male geniuses these days." I see this will be a professional, non-snarky review that will in no way inject feminism or identity politics in a way that reveals the author's own insecurity over her own feelings of inadequacy over not being as smart as a self-taught genius whose own privilege, compared with hers, was precisely zero.

Such a shame you didn't read the very next comment, because it's a fantastic rebuttal of that complete nonsense.

There are two ways to respond to the first sentence of this review. One way would be to acknowledge the truth in it, and say "Huh. I never thought about it before, but come to think of it, I can't recall too many, if any, Hollywood biopics about women. "Amelia" is the only one that comes to mind, but other than that..." And of course the other way is to politicize that statement, and say what you said, sneering the word "feminism" while at the same time taking a cheap, non-factual shot at the reviewer herself, calling into question not only her "bias"" which has contaminated her review, but her intelligence, character, and state of mind, which, as you state: "reveals the author's own insecurity over her own feelings of inadequacy over not being as smart as...." The first response concerns movies, and facts concerning them. The second has absolutely nothing to do with movies, and reveals not the reviewer's state of mind, but your own, and which is shared only by those like yourself who jump at any chance to bash a "feminist" viewpoint even if they have to invent that chance and spin it out of pure air.
P.S.- and looking at your comments, in which you refer to women as "bitches," the worst kind of bitch, you claim, "the kind of bitch that can afford lawyers," reveals you to be if not correct, then at least consistent with your viewpoints, as further evidenced in your bashing of the woman who wrote this review, the first sentence of which states the truth concerning the under-representation of women in Hollywood.

#1 - I'm introvert. I mostly communicate via the internet, among groups that I share the same hobby. Just because something is on the net doesn't make it automatically false. The other reason is that i don't want to name names. But just like charity, for some, doing this "minorty" things is a good income.

#2 - You are moving the goal post. We are talking about women in game dev. There is nothing stopping them from learning and starting their own studio. That is how studios get started - a group of people start a company. At a time Intel are giving 300 million to women, there is all kind of loan targeting women, and women are more than 60% in universities, and they still complain men-men-men? Women are more than 50% of world population. Don't they buy games made by their own gender. why is that?

#3 - Also related to point 2. You know how to make more movies about women genius available? By making them. Why women aren't making them? women always say they can do stuff better than men, while wearing heel no less. but apparently, men still have to solve this problem. men have to start studios and hire them. have to buy their games no matter the quality. must make movies about them.

And all these at a time where a talk (by legend no less) get shut down because a women speaker unable to attend.

i wonder if this is related to 1st world - 3rd world thinking. For us, to make something happen, is to go out there and make it happen. Maybe that is why it's 46% in central asia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_STEM_fields#Worldwide_Statistics_of_women_in_the_STEM_field

An article published by UNESCO in March, 2015 has presented worldwide statistics of women in the STEM fields. The article has reported that overall, only 28% of women in the World are researchers with Central Asia dominating the continents with 46% of their researchers being female and East Asia and the Pacific having the lowest amount of female researchers at 20%.

also, in my own country. you may want to read this:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~cfrieze/courses/malaysia.pdf

http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Malaysia/Story/A1Story20110908-298320.html

I dont really get it.. ppl who pretend to support equality, want to push equality trough being totally unequal?

If you have 2 portfolios to choose from, you should get the best one. The claim is that "industry" choose worst portfolios if the better one is from a women...seriously? Thats like saying ppl hate efficiency and money..

But even so, lets pretend this is a unconditional true, industry do choose worst portfolios, for the sake of argument. ( Id really love to see some rejected women portfolio, and compare to the companies current employees btw)

Then the solution is forcing ppl to choose women portfolios, regardless if theyr better or worse?? Cause to me, the goal would be to make ppl realize they should pick the better ones, regardless of what gender the person is.

The moment you want to solve a problem by introducing another, you just being anti ethical...to not say hypocritical. Its not fair to reject the better portfolio, I mean, duh, do this even need to be said..? Is that "for the greater good" line of thinking?

I cant see any gender war here, its a huge ass cultural problem, man are not handicapping women, parents who rise lame ass girls are. The geek girl who will study on a stem field will not be rejected. The futile girl who only made makeup till eighteen, found out about feminism, took a month lenght java course shouldnt be picked in the place of the white fat ugly genius guy, just cause white fat ugly genius is the norm.

Cancelling an entire event due a women not going, is choosing the worst portfolio, regardless of that lame ass excuse: "look, it worked, were talking about it..." e__e. For that to be ethical, every attendant should be consulted if they consider the time or schedules fucked by this move is worth, cause opinions definitely vary on that matter.

Its just to me that "we need help women rise so they get empowered, since they cant do that withouth men help" is a huge ass shot in the feet? Sounds like those ppl who do everything to not be racist "look, Im not racist, I just pet that black kid and gave him a banana".

When it comes to feminism, Im inclined to the side that wants to "deconstruct" (de-alienated) stuff that only put women in worst situation. Like too much appearance carrying, fragility not being a virtue, the whole "man learns to fight back, women learn to ask for help" stuff.

--SNIP--

I cant see any gender war here, its a huge ass cultural problem, man are not handicapping women, parents who rise lame ass girls are. The geek girl who will study on a stem field will not be rejected. The futile girl who only made makeup till eighteen, found out about feminism, took a month lenght java course shouldnt be picked in the place of the white fat ugly genius guy, just cause white fat ugly genius is the norm.-

--SNIP--

I agree a lot with your point. But there is a limit where a person should stop blaming their parents and start blaming themselves. Case by case basis.

One of my hobbies is astronomy - which include ISS gazing. I can understand if a person was born in a country without space program, and the parent to poor to send the kid oversea. But in case of game dev in 2016? MS compiler have free version for years. Back then I have to learn open source c/c++ compiler. Until I saw Visual C starter kit in the bookstore. Also there is a lot of open source engine and sdks. Back then to develop a game you either use write a wrapper to DirectX or uses libs such as Allegro. These days Unreal and Unity both have free edition.

I studied GWBasic back when I was 12 (13?). Computer access was 1 hour per week via computer class at a boarding school. But it really stick with me. I studied programming more than subject that actually tested in the general exam. So when I borrowed books from libraries, I have to run the program inside my head.

Anyway, to cut this short. Just read the paper I linked in my previous post. If women want to be in game dev, is to study it. And apply it.

However, I'm a non-white person growing up in a village in a 3rd world country. And yet I knew Game Programming Megasite. Game Programmers 99. Internet can be accessed via cyber cafes. I've saved game dev tutorials onto 1.44 disk (thumb drive are not yet popular, or even existed then). sometimes I have to zip and span libs into multiple disks. all to learn programming. I bought sam (?) c++ starter kit 4.0 (with those yellow boxes) to get my hand on original c++ compiler.

These days if someone complain "because men" is the reason why they are not in game dev is just sad. Which is why this talk cancellation is sad on multiple level. Back then I was jumping with joy because I able to converse with andre la mothe at his xgames forum. (to know that he was ex-NASA multiplies this enjoyment).

And how would you feel if everytime you wrote a game, someone dismissed it because of your ethnicity? Because that happens to women, in fields as diverse as science and classical music.
That is an objective fact.

I am curious, since you are so bent on objective facts and demanded the same question from FableFox, please, where is this happening? When was a game or a scientific article dismissed in todays modern world, because a lowly, silly women tried to use her brain. Show me.

I think their exist a bit of white knight syndrome with you. You know what. its because of people like you that such a divide exists in the world today. It is people like you that try to empower others, but all you really accomplish is marketing that person as undesirable and that it is everyone else fault, not the individuals. That they cannot rise themselves or brave the hardships of life to come out on top at the end. Guess what? Their are plenty of poor, impoverished white males who are poverty stricken, not because the world is against them(DUH! They are white!), but because they don't want to thrive as a human being and succeed, they lack drive. But it is their own fault they are poor right, they had every opportunity?

Of course some life circumstances may drag someone to that point, that is out of their control, but life isn't easy, and some people are worse off than others sometimes. How are you going to save them all? You can't. Maybe donate some of your time and money to charity, but guess what, the more you dedicate your life to someone else's, the more you hold your self and your own interest back. Sure it is noble and their is nothing wrong with helping your fellow man, but you aren't doing yourself any favors. I am sick or the "poor me" and "poor you" narrative and anecdotal evidence people try to use when pushing their opinions.

Anyways.

Everyone else(non-white/male) on the other hand are poor, not because of the lack of fortitude and a drive to succeed, but because white privilege has kept them repressed? Get over it. You cant save the world. Individuals succeed in life, not groups.

There are not enough women in game development and the industry as a whole. This is not sexism; it is demographics.

I view this decision as sexism against males, which we know exists in every campus. It is a product of Cultural Marxism which is rampant at universities.

Since when do alleged victims have more rights than the falsely accused? This is mostly what third wave Feminism seems to do these days.

The world actually has a lot of false accusers. The USA Constitution protects the right of the accused to face their accusers in court. In any real court, the hyper Feminist would usually have no real case.

They can go to [you know where] with their false victimhood.

It's time to retake Western Civilization from the mentally ill people in authority who pander to the Feminist mentally ill.