If you are not an Islamist, then trust me: You do not want to live in a predominately Islamic nation. Chances are that it would be a living hell for you.

Neither would living in a nation imposing Christian laws on its citizens by pleasant for anyone not hardcore old-testament Christian.

We can no longer pretend that the lie which President Hussein Obama said is true: "Islam is a religion of peace."

Of course it's a pleasant lie. But as long as you tell the convenient lie for one religion you should have the decency to extend the courtesy to others as well. I'm all for ditching all that religion stuff but I realize not everyone is there yet.

What religion of peace commands its followers to kill those who leave it? What religion of peace has a verse in its holy scriptures which says, "Kill all Jews and Christians wherever you find them." ? What religion of peace treats non-Islamists as less than second class? What religion of peace commands its followers to kill all who criticize it?

Pretty much all of them, at least the monotheistic ones. I mean, let's have a look at Christianity. Let's even ignore stuff like the Crusades. The whole European wars of religion were a purely inter-Christian thing about some details how to worship the same god in the right way.
Just the Thirty Years War alone reduced the population of the German states by 25 to 40% (stuff like that happens when territories are overrun by rival armies often enough, at some point you will have the wrong faith.

Of course in modern Western nation you cannot really slaughter people that easily anymore. Or even just threaten them with death without some legal feedback. So those nutcases who used to whip up your population into a killing frenzy in days past now have to limit themselves to going around with placards like "Thank God for dead soldiers" or some such.

I'd call you out on stuff like "Kill all Jews and Christians wherever you find them." with a [Citation needed] but then I would have to do some research to check the context and compare it with similar instances in, say, the bible. So I just leave a fun pastime for anyone interested to try out: quote the right passages from the bible to people but tell them it's from the quran. It's great fun to watch their horrified responses and prejudice confirmation. If you don't feel like trying it out yourself, there should be enough videos around on Youtube.

Well, more could be written on the subject but I just needed to get some stuff out of my system and after reading some of your previous threads and especially your 'contributions' in this thread I know it's pretty pointless. We are not even talking about dealing with facts but the inability the deal with simple things like the definition of words.

If you are not an Islamist, then trust me: You do not want to live in a predominately Islamic nation. Chances are that it would be a living hell for you.

Neither would living in a nation imposing Christian laws on its citizens by pleasant for anyone not hardcore old-testament Christian.

What you just said is kind of silly. Christianity and its values(I am agnostic by the way) are normal American culture. Islam and its values are normal middle-eastern culture. So why is America the evil one for trying to assimilate outsiders? America is the only country that gets singled out and condemned for wanting to keep the country American. The middle-east most certainly wants to keep its own values and belief system, but there are no outcries when a Christian women(who is Pakistani) is taken to court and sentenced to execution for blasphemy of the prophet Mohammad by her simply talking about her opinion with some friends who turned her in. Where is the world outcry? Imagine if someone was sentenced to death for insulting God in America?

And all of those violent quotes that are spat out from the Quran which you hesitate to believe, they are actually true. You can look them up in the printed, circulated version of todays Quran. And there exists a lot more than what you have seen mentioned here.

Where does it end? Ban Muslims because Islam is a religion of hate. Kick illegal immigrants out because they don't have a piece of paper that says they are American citizens. America is built on Christian values? Where? In church I was taught worship only God, respect all people (the old love your neighbor as yourself), be humble, be honest, live a moral life, be generous with time and money (donate time and money to help those in need), practice what you preach (don't be a hypocrite), don't be self-righteous, don't hold a grudge, and forgive others. These were repeated almost daily when I was younger. So how does banning Muslims fit into those values?

Where does it end? Ban Muslims because Islam is a religion of hate. Kick illegal immigrants out because they don't have a piece of paper that says they are American citizens. America is built on Christian values? Where? In church I was taught worship only God, respect all people (the old love your neighbor as yourself), be humble, be honest, live a moral life, be generous with time and money (donate time and money to help those in need), practice what you preach (don't be a hypocrite), don't be self-righteous, don't hold a grudge, and forgive others. These were repeated almost daily when I was younger. So how does banning Muslims fit into those values?

Many Christians don't support Trump (and nobody I personally know does). Of the people who supported Trump, most don't attend church.

The Republicans who opposed Trump were those who attended church more. According to some polls, only 38% of Trump supporters attend church regularly. The unifying factor behind Trump is not religion (Ted Cruz supporters scored much higher there), but isolationism, anti-immigration, and other factors. Trump supporters are also less pro-life, and less self-identifying as 'conservative' - only 30% claim to be conservative. Trump supporters are predominately a different chunk of the Republican party than the church-going conservatives. Trump supporters are alot more secular than those supporting the other Republican candidates. Among protestant pastors, for example, Trump only had 5% support, Cruz had 29%, and 48% had no 'top pick' (presumably because none of the candidates appealed to them - that's where I am, yet again the Republicans fail to come up with a decent candidate).

As one Bible scholar I know put it, "We're now forced to choose between the clown and the prostitute. Well, God has given us candidates that accurately affect the desires of the majority of the American people."

If we take the entire nation, and cram it into two parties, you still have a huge range of differences in views. Bernie Sanders and Hillary Clinton are pretty much tied in the Democratic campaign so far, for example. I've seriously considered voting for Bernie this election. If we didn't have a two-party system, we'd fine alot more common ground, and wouldn't have to make such dichotomic choices. Many independents and even some Democrats are (supposedly) planning on backing Trump over Hillary. Whereas some Republicans would likely back Bernie over Trump; and we may still get that chance - though I'm undecided on whether I'm voting independent, Bernie, or not voting - that depends on if Hillary gets elected, and on me doing some research on what independents even exist this election. :lol:

The USA is NOT a Christian nation. One might say that honestly 100 years ago, but not now.

At least 57 nations have been Islamized and every one of them were done so by Islamic force. People need to remember that.

If you are not an Islamist, then trust me: You do not want to live in a predominately Islamic nation. Chances are that it would be a living hell for you.

Neither would living in a nation imposing Christian laws on its citizens by pleasant for anyone not hardcore old-testament Christian.

What you just said is kind of silly. Christianity and its values(I am agnostic by the way) are normal American culture. Islam and its values are normal middle-eastern culture. So why is America the evil one for trying to assimilate outsiders? America is the only country that gets singled out and condemned for wanting to keep the country American. The middle-east most certainly wants to keep its own values and belief system, but there are no outcries when a Christian women(who is Pakistani) is taken to court and sentenced to execution for blasphemy of the prophet Mohammad by her simply talking about her opinion with some friends who turned her in. Where is the world outcry? Imagine if someone was sentenced to death for insulting God in America?

Now take a step back and assume I have a Western background but am not American. Actually, don't assume, just set that statement as fact. From my point of view, significant parts of the US are extremely religious (either the status quo or active and serious attempts to move it there). In my mind I cannot look at the US and think of it as a secular state. Christianity (not as a set of base values but actual, hardcore religion) has an extremely strong influence there and a loud outside voice. That's actually a significant parts of the US' problem with Muslim states: it's ridiculously simple to paint the US as just modern crusaders.

There is a lot of meat to deal with in the rest of the quote but unfortunately I do have a day job and my days of trying to argue sense into the Internet at all costs are a bit behind me.

And all of those violent quotes that are spat out from the Quran which you hesitate to believe, they are actually true. You can look them up in the printed, circulated version of todays Quran. And there exists a lot more than what you have seen mentioned here.

I have at no point in my post doubted that the quran contains some pretty strong stuff. I have just added that the bible does as well. For some reason the people complaining most loudly about the quran also seem to be the most blind to similar failings in the bible.
Also, to be fair, a lot of those extreme passages (in either book) become significantly more benign when you talk them over with an actual scholar of the relevant religion. On the other hand, the religious whackjobs on either side just need that one selective quote to whip themselves into a frenzy, so does it really matter what things mean in context?

Also have to remember that so many groups have been whining about so many things for so many years that it is turning into "the boy who cried wolf" syndrome. When serious things come that people need to be concerned about people are instead just not giving a damn.

I have at no point in my post doubted that the quran contains some pretty strong stuff. I have just added that the bible does as well. For some reason the people complaining most loudly about the quran also seem to be the most blind to similar failings in the bible.

Also, to be fair, a lot of those extreme passages (in either book) become significantly more benign when you talk them over with an actual scholar of the relevant religion. On the other hand, the religious whackjobs on either side just need that one selective quote to whip themselves into a frenzy, so does it really matter what things mean in context?

The difference is that there aren't Christian extremist groups going around beheading people in the name of the old testament. Actions are more important than written text, and Islam has shown it's actions in modern days are horrific, and tolerated by moderates at high levels.

So how does banning Muslims fit into those values?

Loving your neighbor by not wanting them subjected to Islam fundamentalists.

Many Christians don't support Trump (and nobody I personally know does). Of the people who supported Trump, most don't attend church.

This is definitely true. This is the first time I switched to Republican and voted in their primary (I voted Trump). A big part of that for me was because Trump doesn't take the usual party lines on social issues (Gay marriage/abortion/bathrooms (lol?)), at the same time though, Christians hate that aspect of Trump.

Overall, I think it's a great step to grow the Republican party.

[background=#fafbfc]The difference is that there aren't Christian extremist groups going around beheading people in the name of the old testament. Actions are more important than written text, and Islam has shown it's actions in modern days are horrific, and tolerated by moderates at high levels.[/background]

So what you are saying is, once I have found some Christian fundamentalists killing in the name of their faith we can agree Christians are exactly as bad? No matter how fringe, low-number compared to the total adherents of the faith and compatibility with more widely accepted teachings of the faith?

Because in that case some Norwegian dude immediately comes to mind. I'm pretty sure with some minuscule effort one could find some interesting samples by just focusing on, say, attacks on abortion clinics or people who work there. Normalized over history most religions (and certainly both Christianity and Islam) have so much blood on their hands that it does not matter. I'm not interested in arguing who is worse when picking a sufficiently adjusted temporal window to sample current events.

The problem is not Islam, the problem is religion in politics and politicians using religion to further their own interests. Well, and religious whackjobs.

The difference is that there aren't Christian extremist groups going around beheading people in the name of the old testament. Actions are more important than written text, and Islam has shown it's actions in modern days are horrific, and tolerated by moderates at high levels.

So what you are saying is, once I have found some Christian fundamentalists killing in the name of their faith we can agree Christians are exactly as bad? No matter how fringe, low-number compared to the total adherents of the faith and compatibility with more widely accepted teachings of the faith?

Because in that case some Norwegian dude immediately comes to mind. I'm pretty sure with some minuscule effort one could find some interesting samples by just focusing on, say, attacks on abortion clinics or people who work there. Normalized over history most religions (and certainly both Christianity and Islam) have so much blood on their hands that it does not matter. I'm not interested in arguing who is worse when picking a sufficiently adjusted temporal window to sample current events.

The problem is not Islam, the problem is religion in politics and politicians using religion to further their own interests. Well, and religious whackjobs.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/11/17/in-nations-with-significant-muslim-populations-much-disdain-for-isis/

When double digits of Christians support (or don't disavow) Breivik you'll have a point.

Islam isn't the problem, I agree, but the people who adhere to orthodox (Wahhabi Sunni) Islamic principles are.