I'm working and finalizing a game design I've had for about 10 years. Upon putting the finishing touches, I've decided to draw something that illustrates the parameters of the game, which are a handful of stats grouped into three categories.

By doing this, instead of having a character's techniques decided by their "class",appearance, or some other factor, I want the numbers to directly affect what they can use.

For example, instead of restricting a character with warrior like traits from using "magic", they WOULD be able to use it, but if their relevant stats aren't high enough, they will either create a small version of said "magic" attack, or a puff of smoke will come out, instead of just "you can't use this skill" message. I think it's funner that way and adds charm to a game. Besides, perhaps some people can use the weaker version of an attack that doesn't fit their skill set in some way.

Anyways, the three categories are enough to determine a wide range of abilities that you can almost see in any action/fantasy medium.

The three aspects illustration, that will be the cornerstone of the battle system in my game. The system itself is a mix of rpg, action, and simulation genres.

What do you think of this graph? The bottom left is physical or "Form", The top is what would be traditionally be known as "magic" or "special attack", but in this game, is known as Spirit. The bottom right is "Mind", which covers techniques most games categorize as "support" and usually have no stat basis. The system is a little more complex than that, as you can see from the middle area and other areas between the three points.

Back to Mind, in most games, support skills usually do something like x1.5 boost to a stat or heal somebody for 50% of their life, regardless of the user or receivers stats. With this, you would have to invest in mind to be able to make good use of support skills. Mind also covers miscellanous skills such as "illusions", and other unique techniques that can't be generated by either form or spirit such as telekinesis, psychic intuition, etc.

I have thought this system out well, for years, and hoping that this year, I can finally make it into a game. This post was just to share this particular mechanic, as theirs so many other game mechanics in the game I would like to talk about, but each on their own would take 2 pages or more to cover, so I'm in the process of trying to find a way to explain it visually using illustrations.

On a side note, my goal right now is just to make a demo to showcase the battle system and game mechanics, with two playable characters and the option to turn one to be A.I. controlled so that you can fight them. A single level to show the dynamics of a interactive environment combined with RPG and action elements.

Could you tell us more about what the illustration is used for? I would need to know more about the picture itself, I'm not sure if it is going to be a menu, or an attempt to represent balance in power, perhaps you intend to make it a selection screen of some sort. I'm not sure what to think.

The idea of letting people use things poorly sounds fine.

The only problem I can guess at is you said that you're finalizing it, this is complicated, and it may be an unknown. At some point you're going to want to start letting players know the game exists.

The illustration is a visual representation of this table taken straight from the game design document.

EDIT: Theres suppose to be a table here, which appears when typing the post out but disappears when posting it so I have attached a screenshot of it.

The image for form, spirit, mind brilliantly illustrates how any of these three powers can mix together. If you notice, there are three triangles within a large triangle. It can also be noticed in the colors of the symbols for f.s.m. The purpose of this system is to bring some balance to the game while also keeping its entertainment value. The game will primarily be a competitive type, emphasizing player vs player.

Letting the players know the game exists is something I want happening. The only problem is that this game only exists in documents and concept art form. I'm looking for a programmer right now who can at least help me create a simple demo, and they don't have to do anything long term. For now, it's just the game mechanics and battle system I want realized. With this simple demo,{which I will add the graphics for}, I will use to it to interest a team of like minded individuals or a game company in order to create the real version of the game.

This is my plan, and right now I'm trying to prepare a site that summarizes what the game is about in order to help with getting help.

For example, a feature I would like and that is integral to the game's identity, but not a priority for the demo, is the ability to customize your characters final looks from the get go. And not just that, but your character doesn't necessarily have to be human/humanoid. In other words, players can create whatever kind of entity they want to be, for those that want to look like an animal, robot, monster, etc. Although, that would mean that the customization system would have to be VERY extensive, which is why I would leave if for the true game/ if the game gets picked up by a big company. If you can imagine it, this game will have a really crazy looking player base.

Your description of this diagram makes it sound like a very impressive system. I would build the outside abilities and skills and work inward, I don't doubt this system already has a sizable amount of skills already planned, which you could easily depict on this diagram but the skill is only half the battle. Since the reason for diversity in skills is to answer the diversity of puzzles, enemy and level design challenges (hope that makes sense) you need to depict the skills within that diagram and build a diagram of challenges to match it.

So to start obviously you'd have one quintessential Mind, Force and Spirit skills that each answer a type of challenge and a few bosses that explore combinations of these skills. After these three you move toward the center (of your triforce of power;) creating one skill for each image you have depicted and again creating specific challenges to justify these skills.

The reason for this is because players earn the most sense of accomplishment from feeling like they've figured out a system. Once you've established some obvious skills that sit in the diagram, begin churning out as many other challenges as you can and start using the remainder of individual skills or combinations to answer those challenges. I would create icons for all of them personally since clear visual depiction helps express ideas much more clearly. I think you'll find the game design becomes very heavy, very quickly and will help you choose the skills that matter the most. You have a solid visual start at expressing this idea, keep at it.

I have thought this system out well, for years, and hoping that this year, I can finally make it into a game

That's a very small subsystem and not a very important one I would say. You can't make a game based on that one alone. How the game area/map will look like? How you move? How battle is initiated (on the game map/separate battle screen)? How many characters are in the party?

For example, if you have more than one character in the party I would say this system would not work (no point in jacks of all trades), but if just one it could be fine.

The biggest danger of starting with this subsystem I see is that you can get too attached to it. Let's say you did the prototype and it turns out it's not so fun and that classes would fit better with the rest of the game. What would you do then, would you be willing to discard it?

My advice would be to start with the basics. Make a map and some character/party moving around, when they encounter a monster the battle starts (simple damage and HP, nothing more). This gives them gold and experience. Experience grants level up which increases damage and HP.

I know it sounds trivial, but really, I was doing various RPGs most of my life and I can vow that this is the best way of starting such game (you can add extras like complex battle system later).

Your description of this diagram makes it sound like a very impressive system. I would build the outside abilities and skills and work inward, I don't doubt this system already has a sizable amount of skills already planned, which you could easily depict on this diagram but the skill is only half the battle. Since the reason for diversity in skills is to answer the diversity of puzzles, enemy and level design challenges (hope that makes sense) you need to depict the skills within that diagram and build a diagram of challenges to match it.

So to start obviously you'd have one quintessential Mind, Force and Spirit skills that each answer a type of challenge and a few bosses that explore combinations of these skills. After these three you move toward the center (of your triforce of power;) creating one skill for each image you have depicted and again creating specific challenges to justify these skills.

The reason for this is because players earn the most sense of accomplishment from feeling like they've figured out a system. Once you've established some obvious skills that sit in the diagram, begin churning out as many other challenges as you can and start using the remainder of individual skills or combinations to answer those challenges. I would create icons for all of them personally since clear visual depiction helps express ideas much more clearly. I think you'll find the game design becomes very heavy, very quickly and will help you choose the skills that matter the most. You have a solid visual start at expressing this idea, keep at it.

Ah, thank you, although, the graph is a diagram relating to the stats for a competitive battle game. There are no puzzles present in the game design other than trying to figure out the fighting style of your opponent and adapting to it in combat. I mean, it could be a mini-game if the game were expanded on and became really popular to the point where players would want to initiate in mini-games relating to their stats. As for combat skills, in the game itself, many kinds of techniques exist that pertain to this diagram. For example, fireballs would purely fall in the spirit section, the very top corner, techniques like punches and jabs fall at the very corner of the left corner and something like telepathy, or the ability to read the opponents next move right when they initiate it but before they launch it, would fall in the right corner.{And the game system is built in such a way to allow such a thing.}

To describe the diagram more in depth, what it does in game is that after a player has inputted their stats before the start of the game{just an example: you can set your base stats from a minimum of 1 to a maximum of 50, with a total starting pool of say 250, and by the games rules, you only need 1 stat from each of the other categories minus Essence, which requires that any of the three have at least 1 point}, the diagram would mark a spot on the triangle in relation to their stats. In other words, it is also a visual helper to the player in figuring out what types of techniques they are best suited to using and all techniques they will come across within the game will show where on the diagram they fall under{techniques can be learned via books items, fighting at certain locations, npcs, fighting certain monsters, etc. but none via "level up" as there is no leveling system, you can gain something akin to experience points, but they are used for other things such as an important gameplay feature that allows you to create your own custom technique, as well as using experience points to create "books items" with a technique you made or know to give/trade to other players}. Back to the diagram and how it helps players with their stats: for example, if their dot were to fall at the very corner of the bottom left, it would mean they would only be effective with physical techniques such as martial arts, bladed weaponry, etc,{depending on what "masteries" they set up in the Intellegence/Hidden Potential/Skills graph, which reflects this graph in being a triad, but focuses on the usage and mastery of techniques, rather than the attributes of the character which is covered by the three aspects graph. I'll have to illustrate that other diagram soon, but for now, it is mentioned in the "character" section of this mock up site I made for practice, in preparation for the actual site:

http://www.grydpher.netne.net

Also, the center of the diagram represents somebody who can use all three aspects, but their limit in all three is lower. They can however still match somebody who purely invested in a single stat via the usage of techniques that make the most out of their stat spread, as well as the innate advantage of having a more versatile movepool.

I have thought this system out well, for years, and hoping that this year, I can finally make it into a game

That's a very small subsystem and not a very important one I would say. You can't make a game based on that one alone. How the game area/map will look like? How you move? How battle is initiated (on the game map/separate battle screen)? How many characters are in the party?

For example, if you have more than one character in the party I would say this system would not work (no point in jacks of all trades), but if just one it could be fine.

The biggest danger of starting with this subsystem I see is that you can get too attached to it. Let's say you did the prototype and it turns out it's not so fun and that classes would fit better with the rest of the game. What would you do then, would you be willing to discard it?

My advice would be to start with the basics. Make a map and some character/party moving around, when they encounter a monster the battle starts (simple damage and HP, nothing more). This gives them gold and experience. Experience grants level up which increases damage and HP.

I know it sounds trivial, but really, I was doing various RPGs most of my life and I can vow that this is the best way of starting such game (you can add extras like complex battle system later).

It is a small subsystem, but its not the only one in the game{I was actually referring to the game's entire system in general when I said that quote, sorry it sounded vague.}. The thread is about determining a player's abilities, which is what this diagram is about and how it does it without having to rely on word style restrictions{i.e. warrior can't cast lightning bolt because only mage classes can}, the game uses purely numerical limitations while allowing a player to use any technique they wish, no matter how ineffective it will be on them.

If you think of this diagram in traditional rpg terms, it is overly complicated and unnecessary, however, this game isn't solely an rpg, and is actually a hybrid of three different competitive genres. Because of that, a traditional rpg stat spread is very limiting and why the game design demanded something more complex, but also needed to be self-correcting, without the use of verbal restrictions found in many games.

Also, as I mentioned to the posted in the message above this, this diagram illustrates where you would fall in the graph fater inputting your stats at the start of the game.

For example, by the rules of the game, you only need a single stat in each column minus Essence which requires all three. The reason for this being that say, you only need a single stat for accuracy to be able to target or detect anything, you only need a single offense stat to use techniques, you need any stat in speed to have mobility, and so on. The game allows those stats to be at 0, but then you'd have a very messed up character that can't properly fight or move.{For example, if you have 0 in speed stats, your character is basically as immobile as a rock, but if you have something in the offense category, and somehow acquired the technique for it, you could "move" around by attacking the ground to push yourself around.{This kind of thing is also why the game system is part simulation, as it has physics to its battle system otherwise not present in a traditional rpg}. And thus, why I've called it a hybrid game.

All those game features you mentioned {game map, how the game starts out, etc.} have already been planned out, as I mentioned, this thread was about the discussion of this sub system. I apologize if it didn't appear that way. The game document itself, although divided into several files, totals somewhere over 60 pages in length, and I gotta organize it all into something that's easy to interpret and understand for an interested game team. I practiced making a site trying to present the game in the easiest to understand manner:

http://www.grydpher.netne.net

<This site is for practice, although I created all the art, I need to include mock up art of the actual menus, as well as proper mock up regarding the character creation system and the website layout needs to be better improved. The game's actual name is Fulgryph.

Also, to give an example of how the game starts: If your going into storymode and not just straight to online competitive play, you are first taken to a character creation screen to create your looks, after which your character is put on a mission with 7 NPC allies. You come across a horde of enemy creatures, and your npc allies begin to fight, after you've seen how each fights,{each npc will represent a symbol on the diagram, for example, the area between spirit and mind are those who can use both techniques of those kinds, as well as use the "MIXED" techniques, which combine both of those aspects to create a new kind of attack. For example, an "Energy bomb" technique is a spiritual attack compressed into a sphere by the force of the mind to detonate upon impact.} Somebody in the area between Form and Spirit could use say, a sword imbued with spiritual flames to increase its attack power, etc.

After you've seen the NPCs fight, time is frozen and you will be able to highlight each character as they were in mid-battle, with a menu showing information on each fighting style, the three aspects stat distribution, and the I.H.E.{Intellegence, Hidden Potential, Skills} set up, at this point, you are either asked if you want to copy that set up of said character, or create your own, in either case, you are taken to a screen where you can set up your stats and select your I.H.E. limits. You are also give your weapon at this point. Once that is done, you are thrown into the fray to assist the other 7 NPCs. Afterwards, when you return to town, the party disbands and you are free to roam around the game world, go to multiplayer competitions, or play in storymode, which has you travel the world map to defeat 5 powerful bosses and along the way, practice in your chosen fighting style, while acquiring new techniques and skills.

I could type out more about the game's other features, but it's too lengthy to discuss here. I would need to make a different topic discussing the game itself.

My main goal right now is to just make a demo demonstrating the fighting system, which over half of the features hasn't been discussed in this thread since a special system is what manages the combat and stats represented in the three aspects image. I have attached an image from one of my game design documents discussing the menu relating to the combat system. I have the game mostly documented already, I just have to organize it and present it in a simpler way as I've mentioned already.

Also, regarding my game design experience, I've been desgining games since I was in the single digits of age, when I made a board game regarding whale survival in the open ocean. After making a few games from paper like bug chess and various others over the years, I began to study up on video game design around 13. Shortly after I began work using a game engine and created about three different games over the span of my high school days before I strayed away from games in general and focused on art. In the meantime, I just passively worked on game design ideas for the next few years in my spare time. This game design project is my favorite out of the few I've had been working on. I never attempted to turn it into a game on my own as I know how many years a single person can spend on a game doing everything, and only get so much done. Next time, I'll work in a team in order to bring this game to fruition sooner.

So if I do manage to get a team, I can serve as both Game Designer and Concept Artist.

Couple of things I'm curious about:

- Do you play as just one character? From what you've said I got a feeling you'd only have NPC party members.

- From the picture the arrows make it look like a triangle system - Magic beats Strength beats Support beats Magic. Is it so? Because if you only play one character, how are you going to balance it?

- How is it different from class systems with hybrids? E.g. a paladin = half warrior half priest, yet he is essentially unique

Also, as with pretty much everything, I feel like examples are the best way to demonstrate and prove concepts. I would very much suggest coming up with some character sheets and a combat log capturing a simple fight between them. You will likely need to show it to the demo programmer anyway.

-For the initial version of the game, yeah. A single character per person. if you see in the thumbnail at the bottom of my last post, the document explains options you have during combat, which without having learned any techniques, you already have that many options available by default, plus the 5 basic combat commands inherent in all characters from the start. As your character learns more techniques and their base stats increase{the increase occurs without levels involved}, you will be able to win any fight no matter what playstyle you use. There are three ways to win a fight, 1 is to reduce their Vitality{hp equivalent}, the other is to force them to deplete their supply stat{a stat that fuels the Essence stats, and basically a pc's "runtime" before they run out of fuel, if going all out in a fight, at a minimum, a character can run out in 3 minutes, and those with large supply stats can go for as long as 10 minutes before running out.}, or to "seal" them with techniques that eventually shut down some aspect of their playstyle.

By focusing on either of these 3 goals in combat, even characters that deal very little damage can still win. Which is why a single character is needed. To fight in a group, you must join with friends. The only way for a person to play to characters at the same time is to have two copies of the game since the game user interface is designed to control a single character. However, if it turns out that managing multiple characters at the same time is easier than it looks on paper, I would probably allow players to form parties of up to 3 of their own PCs, however, it would mess up the movement system and it would have to be switched over to point and click, which would conflict with a lot of the elements in this game as it is, like the ability to sneak up on people from behind or having a team member scout ahead of you while you get into a hidden position, things that can't be done with point and click movement systems and the camera that this game uses. So it is very, very unlikely that the game will allow more than a single character per player.

-That picture in the corner was illustrating about how to mix techniques: Mixing aspects for offensive attacks is effective if going counter-clockwise, defensive is clockwise, and special can be either.

- At least from what I know, the difference would be that in games with hybrid class systems, the hybrid class usually just has techniques from either class and their stats are a little more spread out so that they won't be as effective. In the game I'm working on, the existence of mixed techniques allows for hybrids to use techniques only they would be most effective with, and not just be using the techniques of two classes less usefully. Plus, in the system I'm working on, you can fine tune your character to be anywhere on that triangle. For example, if you slightly off center, towards the direction of the top, you would be a character that is slightly below average in Form and Mind, but above average in Spirit. If your directly on either of the icons between the three corners, you would just simply be "Slightly above average, but equal in the two aspects depicted in the icon, with leanings toward the more apparent of the icons." In a class system, you have to be what you choose and can rarely customize it. Something of a peeve in most games I played, where they tell you that you have to have your stats a certain a way while keeping certain looks a certain way and nothing more.

With this flexible stat choosing system, plus the character creator, you can look however you like and have whatever stats you wish within the amount that you are given. So you could have a large character that looks like a tank but is actually fast and light, or a small character that looks weak and light, but is actually a slow tank, and so on. {Although in the character builder, as the current plans stand, increasing your size also increases your target area, so to compensate, you get a huge boost in HP in proportion to how much bigger you are than average size, especially since you'll receive more damage from large size attacks, while going smaller makes you a smaller target, but your HP is reduced to balance it.} The smallest you can go is 1 ft tall, and at tallest, 30 feet. So if these two characters at the extreme ends of sizes had the same speed stat, they would still be equally fast in movement, just different target sizes and different HP {Vitality} modifiers. Theres a lot more to the character creations affect on the character, but except for size, your appearance will not affect your stats in anyway. The only three categories in the builder that do have stats are Heart, Brain, and Molecule. Heart determines the replenishment rate of Stamina, Brain determines the replenish rate of Wits, and Molecule for Vitality's replenishment rate. All three also give Supply, the life force of a PC and the fuel to the Essence category. There is a lot more to explain, but I'll just leave it at that.

I do have some files with character sheets and a poorly illustrated combat log, which I will link to, although I'm working on making an updated, well illustrated version of said battle log. The character sheet in the screenshot uses old terminology where Form, Spirit, and Mind use to be known as Frame, Power, and Psi, this was back in 2010 though.

^^^Thank you auto-save content, my window closed and I thought I lost all that was written.

Heres a few mock ups from a while back, showing a 2D version of the game. The G.U.I was unfinished, but you can see the Essence stats in the left represented as %{I plan to make them visual bars} and the Krono Meter on the right corner.

I plan to make new mock ups that actually look good with my new art skills as these are about 2 years old.

I have attached a screenshot I just took of a sheet written in 2010 showing a summary of character's stats in the three aspects system, under older terminology.

I thought I had it figured out, but the picture confused me :D I was assuming it would be more static and turn based.

I think that in general you have a problem with mislabeling things: one case of this on your webpage is when you claim "Most turn-based games and RPG games only let you attack when it's "your turn", the F.T.S.(Faster Than Sight) system allows you to make moves at anytime." If you play in real time then it's not turn based.

The second case of mislabeling is unnecessary renaming, for instance naming hp/life as vitality etc. People are just used to calling certain things certain names. In general you want to keep these conventions so that players new to your game could easily adapt, because they're used to similar things from other games.

If I'm understanding the combat correctly then you'd move in 2D space with lets say 'WASD'. And when you can (basically a cooldown is up) you pick one of several options - which could essentially be done by hotkeys / skill bar instead of the turn based menu. The 'counter' system is also common in many games - press a button at the right time to deal with an attack (fighting games, Assassin's creed etc.). What you added is the "Freeze-Framing" that adjusts your reaction time with the reaction stat. This could get weird since players who have better reactions and know their hotkeys will just ignore the reaction stat anyway. Everything so far looks pretty much real time and this minor adjustment basically only adds a lot of multiplayer problems. If I'm correct in assuming that MP could be more than 1v1, then all players would experience micro stuttering when other players make their choices.

I guess the closest games to this combat system would be something like Awesomenauts or some side-scrolling fighting games, just without the freeze-framing. But if I'm understanding the entire thing wrong then feel free to correct me. I'm mostly curious about the need to aim and how the positioning influences things. Also the Krono thing.

10 years of design!? When do you plan to start developing this?

I think you might be addicted to brain crack.