It has been established that the article you referenced is out of date. You are also confusing two aspects of Windows 8. There is Windows RT, which is designed to run on ARM devices, primarily phones and tablets. This is not designed to be anyone's primary device! Some tablets, and laptops / desktops running x86 hardware will have full desktop access and not everything will have to go through the store or certification process. Why isn't everyone up in arms that you cannot install steam games on iOS or Android? This is the exact same thing except for the fact that Microsoft also has support for the "mobile" (metro / modern) apps to run on desktop machines. That means you can pretty much write it once (depending on the features you leverage), and run it on the phones, the tablets and the desktop. However to paranoid fanboys, Microsoft is just a large company which must be doing evil stuff, so clearly they are going to act against their best interest just to inconvenience people.

It's probably worth noting that I've been running Windows 8 on my Macbook Pro for months, both in bootcamp and in Parallels. I have not purchased a single application through the store yet. I can run everything on Windows 8 that I can on Windows 7, and for the most part it runs better.

I was hoping this point would be made, the idea of the Store is really just so that the WinRT version can gain attraction. Windows 8 Pro will just be Metro and a Windows 7 subsystem..All your programs can run on it, and the Store is only a means of getting "other" apps.. Microsoft is just trying to create their own ecosystem here, I think all the concerns and worries are misplaced. I too have been running Windows 8 on a desktop and none of these fears have risen mainly due to the fact that I can run desktop applications..that includes GAMES!

It's crazy how the gaming paradigm has shifted, there never used to be this notion that in order for your game to gain attention, you'd need to use a "Store"..It seems its only an excuse to not think about marketing, since the stores rating system will do that for you..pity..I still play games that didnt require a store for me to know it was popular.

[quote name='Servant of the Lord' timestamp='1351478615' post='4994915']<br />my games will eventually have to be released to Metro or else not be on Windows at all<br />

The desktop isn't going anywhere.[/quote]
Currently! But we're one more step closer to Windows becoming completely a walled garden. Windows RT is completely, and who knows how vast a market share that will get if it's on all the netbooks? Windows 8 currently is a mix, but will Windows 9 be? We don't know, but it seems likely.

Do you really think Visual Studio will become Metro only? Do you think any programmer inside of Microsoft that works day in and out using Visual Studio thinks that is the future of all applications?[/quote]
The free version was Metro only, until people vocally complained. But I don't care if Visual Studio is or is not, I use MinGW anyway. What I care about is whether the entire OS goes Metro-only sometime down the road. Windows RT already is. Windows 9 might be - we just don't know yet. It's not fantasy thinking, it's a high probability that this is the route Microsoft intends to go. It's not a route *I* want Microsoft to go. It's not a guarantee, but it is very likely. Hence my concern.

If you look closely at the new WinRT API you'll see it supports multiple Window objects in a single application. While you currently have no way to create a second window... that obviously won't be true forever. WinRT is "Metro" style apps only right now... within a year I expect the next WinRT revision will allow desktop applications as well.[/quote]



For the upteenth time.... Windows 8 runs Win32 apps. WE KNOW. But Windows RT will not run anything that hasn't been sold through the Windows Store. It's not Metro vs Non-metro, not an interface debate, it's Microsoft-authorized only vs multiple choices of distributors keeping costs and service competitive. No indies marketting through their own website. Windows Store or nothing. No alternative stores like Steam offering huge sales with steep discounts and constant innovation. Just Windows Store or nothing. This fear isn't here yet, but it's closer and that is what we are complaining about.

How much market share will Windows RT (shipped on cheap laptops) get? What will Windows 9 do? These are valid concerns.

People seem to think WinRT and Metro is about killing the desktop and open distribution of apps... it is not. The real goal is replacing the 20 years of legacy APIs that keep Windows from being secure and performant on lower end devices.[/quote]
It has plenty of benefits - secure software is a primary one. However, it also is killing open distribution on some Windows releases (Windows RT), and might do so on all future Windows releases (Windows 9). That's our concern.

Non-'Windows Store' software WILL NOT WORK on some versions of Windows 8 (the Windows RT versions). Already a piece of the Windows market is blocked. How large, we won't know until we find out the Windows RT market share (which will be shipped on cheap netbooks and will likely be a substantial but not dominant portion). Windows 9 may take it all the way away from non-'Windows Store'.

If Microsoft Surface becomes successful, too bad for any software not sold through Microsoft and giving Microsoft a 30% fee. The non-RT version of Surface won't ship until January. Every Surface sold for launch and for the Christmas season will not support any software except the ones that Microsoft sells for you. Not fantasy, this is fact.

I love win 7 ultimate with its bit locker option. I also do not like this tablet look of win 8. I mean as an developer environment I would like to keep win 7 desktop look. I have seen some people around on the web saying that that could be fixed. However never seen any option like that in the many presentation videos on win 8.

Also upgrading from a win 7 ultimate edition seems like downgrading for me. Perhaps I need to do some more research on that one

The win 8 app store should not be a huge issue as people should still be able to download games and install them just like on win 7 as far as I have read. In fact I see the app store as a competition element to Steam and nothing more. In other words yet another option for buying and downloading games.

I do expect it to be buggy and I shall await the brave Torque pioneers who dare install win 8 and test it out

In fact I would like to give it a chance but I do not wanna get rid of my bit locker option so for now until I know more and actually feel a need to do a more profound research on the matter I shall not invest time in win 8.

Anyway, this seems like one of the versions you better skip as a customer.

What sells me is Windows To Go. If I can run Windows off a USB stick as I can with Linux and PC-BSD, that's great. I feel like that won't be enough for some really important tasks, but that's one feature that grabs me.

I'm not a fan of the whole AppStore concept. No matter who is offering it. I don't use Apple's (or any other of Apple's overpriced product), Steam or similar software.[/quote]Thing is, you have this on *nix too. I use apt-get/"Software Center" on Ubuntu. FreeBSD has ports. What's the difference between Ubuntu's Software Center and an app store? One is the other; you can buy Braid on Ubuntu Software Center, and you can buy Braid on Windows Store (I'm guessing).

And that's just an organized way to install software, so I usually prefer it.
[/quote]

Okay, I should have been more precise. I shouldn't have used "a customer" for my personal opinion. However I don't feel like I will have a huge advantage when switching to Windows 8. There isn't any feature that make me want it. And as far as I know Microsofts pattern, all the new features (that I don't really need) will feel unpolished and only get better after the first or second service pack or if we're unlucky we will have to wait for Windows 9.


Now the other issue. Sure Linux/BSD do have package repositories. But there different, you can have multiple repositories provided by different people and you can always install stuff without using any repository at all. I don't know how Ubuntu's Software Center works, but if it's the sinlge vendor controlled place to get software for Ubuntu, there isn't any difference to Apples or Microsofts AppStore.

It's also quite different if the provider of an AppStore is also distributing Software over it's own AppStore. As a developer you can't be sure that your product get's the same attention and advertisement as a competeting product made by the store owner.

And one more, as customer you have to trust the store owner that he makes sure software that is being sold in his store isn't crap. As far as I can tell, this doesn't work so well. Apple seems to allow any crappy piece of software in their store, as long as it's not malware.

In my opinion, Windows XP and Windows 7 were huge steps forward, while Vista and Windows 8 were huge steps backward. Though Vista was only a really crappy implementation, Windows 8 is a step backwards by design.

My general dislike of hammering a tablet-computer look on a desktop left aside, the single most important reason not to support Metro is that Windows 8 is an attempt to close the open PC platform, as Mr. Persson (the "Minecraft guy") has put it. This is not only about censoring what kind of applications you may (may? what the f...?) write and publish, it is also about what APIs, operating system features and languages you can use.

Insofar you are doing yourself and every other developer a great disservice by supporting Windows 8. Of course I'm aware that it will come. Either way, it will come, and either way it will be successful. But that doesn't mean I have to actively support it coming.

Putting games aside, does anybody have any links to reactions from large IT companies? It seems to me that companies that make their money creating specialized applications for businesses would be dramatically affected as well if they have to go through MS to get their software to run.

Just as my New iPad can be nothing more than a small side part of my life, Windows Metro will, in all of the foreseeable future, be nothing but an on-the-side toy if it has any part in my life at all.

Here I think is the problem. You happily hand over hundreds of dollars to get every New Device from Apple, despite it only being a small part of your life. But for something that offers much more for you, you don't want to pay the $30 upgrade, just because of some of the policies that Apple are far worse on anyway. And you post to forums arguing for others to do the same. Quite frankly, if MS have decided that they should take on some of the profiteering tactics from Apple, it's people like you who are to blame [/quote]
I think you misunderstood.

1. I never “happily” paid for it. I paid for it double-begrudgingly since they didn’t have the cheap model I wanted (which alone would have been single-begrudging) and had to spend an extra $150 or so.
   
2. I said in my post it is nothing but a side. I use it for development, listening to music on the way to and from work, and sharing pictures on dates. Nothing more. I have never even purchased a single app for it.
   
3. Every new Apple device? After 5 years I finally got a single iOS device (New iPad) and to develop for it I got a used MacBook Pro.
   
4. So people such as myself are quite clearly not to blame for Microsoft’s shift in policies. People such as myself have proved very unprofitable for Apple directly as I have never used the App Store and have only ever in my life purchased 1 Apple product new.
   

This is the mentality a lot of people seem to have. People will likely get more and more comfortable with the idea of the Windows machine being just a side as some other platform grows to the forefront of their minds.

Well hang on, if a Windows machine is just a side thing, and your New Ipad is your life, surely by the above reasoning, you now need to criticise Apple, whilst excusing MS for doing the same thing?
[/quote]
As I said, my New iPad can never be more than a side thing. Here:

Just as my New iPad can be nothing more than a small side part of my life[/quote]

I don’t like Windows Metro because mobile policies don’t belong on a desktop, at least not strictly. Windows RT is no problem for me. It is just a mobile device and so by definition could never be more than a side.
Why does that make me a Linux/Apple fanboy according to tstrimple or one of those kiddies who buys every new Apple product (or at least the iOS ones)?
I don’t see how these assumptions get made when I am the exact opposite.


L. Spiro

So I will say this. I don't think the Desktop app will last much longer on Microsoft OSes, especially if Windows 8 becomes successful. So the concern over a Metro-only world is a valid concern. But honestly, I don't see how or why Microsoft would close off the system like that. I don't think the MacOS has done such a thing yet. And Android is certainly not going to go in that direction.

The free version was Metro only, until people vocally complained.

Wrong. The free version only allowed you to build Metro apps. There is no Metro version of Visual Studio.

For the upteenth time.... Windows 8 runs Win32 apps. WE KNOW. But Windows RT will not run anything that hasn't been sold through the Windows Store.[/quote]

Who cares?! Windows RT is not designed to be your primary environment! Windows RT is the equivalent of iOS and Android. Windows 8 is the new (better) operating system which also happens to be able to run applications targeting mobile devices.

No indies marketting through their own website. Windows Store or nothing. No alternative stores like Steam offering huge sales with steep discounts and constant innovation. Just Windows Store or nothing. This fear isn't here yet, but it's closer and that is what we are complaining about.

How much market share will Windows RT (shipped on cheap laptops) get? What will Windows 9 do? These are valid concerns.[/quote]

Except they are not valid concerns. I'll repeat, anyone who thinks Microsoft is going to jettison their 95% grip on the desktop / laptop market is an idiot. There are over 1.2 billion Windows desktop installs across the world right now. Compare that to the 150+ million iOS devices, and the 250 million android devices. It makes no business sense to screw your 1.2 billion customers in order to try to take over a hundred million or so mobile devices. The only reliable upgrade path for those billion customers is to ensure that their applications continue to work on the new operating systems.

Non-'Windows Store' software WILL NOT WORK on some versions of Windows 8 (the Windows RT versions).[/quote]
Once again, who cares? OSX apps won't work on iOS. EVERYBODY PANIC!

If Microsoft Surface becomes successful, too bad for any software not sold through Microsoft and giving Microsoft a 30% fee. The non-RT version of Surface won't ship until January. Every Surface sold for launch and for the Christmas season will not support any software except the ones that Microsoft sells for you. Not fantasy, this is fact.[/quote]

So what? Microsoft isn't the only one making Windows 8 devices. Most of the devices available as of last Friday are full blown Windows 8 devices. Not Windows RT. Lets not pretend like only Windows RT is available until January.

Putting games aside, does anybody have any links to reactions from large IT companies? It seems to me that companies that make their money creating specialized applications for businesses would be dramatically affected as well if they have to go through MS to get their software to run.

Except you don't have to go through the MS store.

Managing "BYO" PCs in the enterprise (including WOA)

As mentioned, the Metro style self-service portal app, or SSP, is the day-to-day interface for the corporate user to access their management infrastructure. Here they can browse to discover LOB apps that have been made available to them by the IT admin. There are actually four different types of apps that IT can publish for users in the SSP:

• Internally-developed Metro style apps that are not published in the Windows Store
  
• Apps produced by independent software vendors that are licensed to the organization for internal distribution
  
• Web links that launch websites and web-based apps directly in the browser
  
• Links to app listings in the Windows Store. This is a convenient way for IT to make users aware of useful business apps that are publicly available.
  
  Since the user specified his or her corporate credentials as part of the initial connection with the management infrastructure, the IT admin can then specify which apps are published to each user individually, based on the user’s AD domain user account, or as a member of AD user groups. As a result, the user only sees those apps that are applicable to them in the SSP.[/quote]