From a consumer perspective I won't buy Windows 8. But that's never been a problem, Microsoft always had some odd Windows-versions that only people that didn't care buy (or did get with the hardware they where buying).

For example the versions I used were:
3.11, 95, 98SE, XP (x86 + x64), 7 (x86 + x64)

And of course school and work related:
98, NT, 2000, Server 2003, 2008, Vista

Well I couldn't influence what I had to use at work. The server versions are great.
Only Vista really bothered me.

Of course there is always some change. For example I really hated the default style that came with XP (childish blue and green). But it's almost always possible to customize it for your needs. - The Windows 8 GUI looks like a childs toy, again...

Anyway, this seems like one of the versions you better skip as a customer.

From a developer perspective, well it depends, I haven't really tried it out. Of course as long as Windows 7 is so popular I won't use features that stop my software being backward compatible.

I'm not a fan of the whole AppStore concept. No matter who is offering it. I don't use Apple's (or any other of Apple's overpriced product), Steam or similar software.

Well if you're already using OpenGL, it shouldn't be a huge problem to port your game to another platform.

The only thing that is stopping me from using another operating system is the lack of good drivers/the hassle of installing them. If AMD would provide propper drivers for *BSD I would problably have switched. Most of the other software I use could be run in a virtualized environment. If it weren't for games.

[quote name='L. Spiro' timestamp='1351498335' post='4994975']
I don’t think they were intending to be that harsh.
But the original Mortal Kombat game from 1992 is banned from the store (even after the revisions).
What do you think are the chances that they never ban any game you want to play in the future?

If the original MK (and all its variations) are banned, then I guess that means all the subsequent MK games are banned as well? Which would be strange given that the latest MK is available on Xbox and Halo is rated M is it not? I'll wait until 2013 to see how all of this shakes out. I think MS's attempt to be like Apple is not gonna be as successful as they hoped and they will have to go back and change some of the rules. IE. be far more flexible.
[/quote]

If you read more current articles, you'll notice that the change won't go into effect until December. This article gives a pretty good summary and covers a number of important points some people like to ignore.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/article/windows-8-marketplace-will-sell-18-rated-games-after-all-not-just-yet-valve-can-keep-being-valve

The change will come into effect this year, Windows Corporate VP of of Web Services Antoine Leblond told Gizmodo, but not before December. Yesterday’s announcement was made to “give developers a heads up that that's where we're going, so they can have the peace of mind around developing the kinds of games that will have those ratings."
[/quote]

Leblond was keen to point out that 18-rated games will be available via other digital distributors on Windows in the meantime - namely Steam and Origin.
"We want the world of desktop apps to to keep existing [outside of the Windows Store]. There's no reason to get in the way of that.
“Valve can keep being Valve," he added.
[/quote]

Perhaps ocean-crossed confusion was at the root of this whole silly affair. It seems Microsoft have mistaken PEGI’s commonly-used 18 rating as equivalent to their own - the rarely used ‘Adults Only’ label - rather than the 17-and-up ‘Mature’ made so familiar by US trailers. In fact, the A rating has only been pinned to 23 games in the history of the ESRB, and doomed most of those titles to commercial disaster.
[/quote]

Anyway, this seems like one of the versions you better skip as a customer.

Care to back that statement up? I personally believe that going to the start screen by default for x86 machines is a mistake, but it's quite easy to get past. Apart from some of the ui quirks, it's a much better operating system than Windows 7 overall.

Anyway, this seems like one of the versions you better skip as a customer.[/quote]What sells me is Windows To Go. If I can run Windows off a USB stick as I can with Linux and PC-BSD, that's great. I feel like that won't be enough for some really important tasks, but that's one feature that grabs me.

I'm not a fan of the whole AppStore concept. No matter who is offering it. I don't use Apple's (or any other of Apple's overpriced product), Steam or similar software.[/quote]Thing is, you have this on *nix too. I use apt-get/"Software Center" on Ubuntu. FreeBSD has ports. What's the difference between Ubuntu's Software Center and an app store? One is the other; you can buy Braid on Ubuntu Software Center, and you can buy Braid on Windows Store (I'm guessing).

And that's just an organized way to install software, so I usually prefer it.

What magic is this? Steam running on Windows 8? Some Linux / Apple fanboys who have never used Windows 8 told me this is impossible! It's also worth noting that Counter Strike: Global Offensive is rated M under ESRB and 18 under PEGI, yet it is installed and plays just fine via Steam. Any more FUD?

@tstrimple: So, you have to use Metro?

I guess the main point so far is that everything you get on your Metro

I guess the main point so far is that everything you get on your

Metro

I guess the main point so far is that everything you get on your

Metro

Anything else cocky to add?

Also, who is a “fanboy” here?
I hate Linux and Apple even more than I do Microsoft.


L. Spiro

What magic is this? Steam running on Windows 8? Some Linux / Apple fanboys who have never used Windows 8 told me this is impossible! It's also worth noting that Counter Strike: Global Offensive is rated M under ESRB and 18 under PEGI, yet it is installed and plays just fine via Steam. Any more FUD?

Hax!

One of the authors of SlimDX said he was not interested in adding support for it to SlimDX, and Valve is obviously going out of their way to make a point that they are not going to support it either. Minecraft won’t, and I am not decided on my own engine.
MJP has never even tried to use DirectX 11.1 yet.

There are several separate issues here: Windows 8, Metro, latest version of DirectX and so on.

Windows 8 (non-RT) will still run all existing Windows applications, and I imagine therefore most people would be supporting Windows 8, even if this doesn't mean any new APIs.

I hardly see why it's doom and gloom for MS because not every immediately jumps onto the latest version of DirectX - for all sorts of reasons, it takes time to move engines across. Also not all software is necessarily best suited to the full-screen Metro UI.

For myself: I'll be happily writing for and supporting Windows x86. I won't be doing anything Metro as I'm not interested in that yet and don't have the time - for GUIs, I primarily use Qt anyway. I'm still using DirectX 9 - not out of any protest or boycotting, but because I haven't had time to learn and write for newer versions.

How many of you are starting to consider moving away from Windows in favor of Macintosh OS X or Linux?
Do you think Microsoft will be able to continue going this route or will they be forced to either downsize considerably or lift their ridiculous policies? Do you plan to push them into such a situation by, for example boycotting any of their products?[/quote]I don't know what ridiculous policies you mean.

I do have concerns with the Windows RT model where software can only be distributed by their site. But that doesn't stop me writing x86 Windows software as before. It would also be ludicrous to boycott MS by switching to a company that has far more ridiculous policies as far as trying to lock down open computing is concerned. I already write cross-platform for Linux, but it would be silly to drop Windows.

And this is the first time I have considered moving away from Windows, or at least never “upgrading”.
Windows XP and Windows 7 still work fine. If games stop coming out for them, I will see what platform is getting all the games. Linux? Valve’s own new game machine? That Ouhaoasdjh thing funded by Kickstarter?
In any case it is not going to be Windows 8/Metro, as guaranteed by their own policies on what they allow through their store, which specifically state, “No good games”.[/quote]It will still be possible to release standard PC games for Windows 8, even if it's not through the MS store.

I see Microsoft in the near future being just a shell of its former self.
Apple has been rising steadily in popularity thanks to iOS and other vendors are stepping up to fight in the console wars, while existing platforms may suddenly get a boost in popularity depending on how things go.[/quote]Well in turn, Android is massively more popular than IOS. It also seem contradictory to have a post that criticises MS for various policies, but then suggest they will be outdone by a mobile OS that does all these policies to a far greater extent. If people are going to boycott because of those policies, it will hurt Apple more. If not, it's not a problem in the first place.

The upcoming generation of gaming will leave consumers with many more options than previously, so we are no longer bound to just Windows and consoles. With many gamers feeling smitten by Microsoft, I see a lot of people intentionally seeking options outside of Microsoft, and Microsoft will ultimately end up in trouble.[/quote]There is nothing new here, for games there have long been devices (handheld and non-handheld) for playing games, that aren't Windows, and in some cases other things. Whether they are labelled "console" or not is a semantics issue. And on the contrary, this has been an area where MS has been increasing its reach over the last 10 years (mainly with X Box).

There is no guarantee of anything being ported over, and many game companies not (yet) willing to out, with no guarantee they ever will.
No guarantee of ever being able to use my favorite applications and no guarantees as to what kinds of games will be available, but with guarantees on what kinds of games will NOT be available.

You will be able to play and use them on Windows 8. And even beyond then - MS tends to have long support for backwards compatibility, so there is no reason to think that this will change anytime soon. Even if eventually this gets pushed out into a "Ultimate" version. And pingz makes a good point - for MS to kill off the older compatibility sooner, and to be stricter about forcing people to release only through their site, this would require good uptake in the new APIs, and in releasing through their site. If what you claim is true, and no one wants this, then this also means you have less to fear anyway, as MS won't be in a position to do that so easily.

You see, I'm also worried by a future where you can only write software for a device you own if one of a few big companies lets you. But it's not logical to say "And so it'll flop", on the contrary, the fear exists that most people won't care, and it will be successful. Just as with Apple - it'd be fine if everyone was releasing for Android (and Symbian before that), but the fear is precisely because IOS gets catered for above all else, despite smaller share, and despite their closed platform. And if you want to criticise people for supporting a closed platform, you need to target the people who have done so for hundreds of thousands of IOS applications. You're the one who gave hundreds of dollars to Apple for their closed platform - not I.

This would be fine if it was the App Store. It’s just crap for my New iPad. I never planned on playing Mortal Kombat Super Bloody Gore Version 3,000 on it.
But this is a desktop. My entire life, essentially.
I can’t feel safe with that much of my life under that much control.
Just as my New iPad can be nothing more than a small side part of my life, Windows Metro will, in all of the foreseeable future, be nothing but an on-the-side toy if it has any part in my life at all.[/quote]Here I think is the problem. You happily hand over hundreds of dollars to get every New Device from Apple, despite it only being a small part of your life. But for something that offers much more for you, you don't want to pay the $30 upgrade, just because of some of the policies that Apple are far worse on anyway. And you post to forums arguing for others to do the same. Quite frankly, if MS have decided that they should take on some of the profiteering tactics from Apple, it's people like you who are to blame

This is the mentality a lot of people seem to have. People will likely get more and more comfortable with the idea of the Windows machine being just a side as some other platform grows to the forefront of their minds.[/quote]Well hang on, if a Windows machine is just a side thing, and your New Ipad is your life, surely by the above reasoning, you now need to criticise Apple, whilst excusing MS for doing the same thing?

[quote name='Martins Mozeiko' timestamp='1351473846' post='4994896']
I think it will be same as it was with Vista/DX10. At first "everybody" will "hate" it because of breaking backward compatibility But after a while it will be normal to use as it is now normal to use DX11.

I agree.

I remember the clamor and controversy over Windows XP, and that turned out to be nothing. In fact, people who had first claimed they would stick to Windows 98SE and Linux later turned around and said they would stick with Windows XP when Vista was coming out. People are fickle.
[/quote]Yes, this - I find it amusing that Windows XP is now hailed as being the best MS OS ever...

Don't get me wrong, I do share some concerns. I don't think that touch-screen-tablet only is the future. But I find it odd that MS get all the hate when it's clear the keyboard will live on in their vision on the future, and the critics tell us we should switch to a certain company that really is pushing touch-only devices.

And I fully oppose the idea of a company having control over what's released on a platform, but again, people should have been criticising that other company doing that from the start, rather than praising them for doing the very same thing. Especially since on Windows you can carry on releasing software the old fashioned way if you like. (If one doesn't like the Metro interface anyway, why care that you can't release on it? Just carry on as before.)

OOI, does anyone know what the "can only be released through Microsoft shop" applies to? Is it Windows RT (i.e., the ARM version)? Or anything using the "Metro" interface? Or anything that compiles to WinRT (as opposed to Win32 - not to be confused with Windows RT...)

Typically MS does react to criticisms, but doesn't back down altogether. So the problems with Vista were ironed out with Windows 7, but the interesting thing is that all of the new features and changes remained, and people liked them once the issues were ironed out. I suspect we'll see something similar with Windows 8. We've already seen this, e.g., the change to allow mature games as someone posted; there was also the change to allow the new Express versions of Visual Studio to still be able to create non-Metro software.