Silly question. If Steam and its ilk are allowed in the Windows Store, in the end does this really matter?

Steam could be sold on the Windows Store, but it would be a somewhat dead piece of software since you wouldn’t be able to buy games through it, just run them once you have purchased them from the Windows Store.

But those games are far from the point for me; I have never played any of them and am not strongly compelled to do so (though I am mildly interested in trying 2 of them).
They are also not the main point of that article.


As it is now, when I want software I go to the developer’s site and get it.
Regardless of what Microsoft has said of the longevity of its desktop feature, I have doubts about it.
Let’s assume a Metro environment.
Let’s say I am ready and willing to sign up and buy it from the Windows store. But that is only my side of things. If the developer never ports it over (Minecraft, SlimDX, MHS, anything anyone has developed in his or her spare time) then I am simply stuck.
There is no guarantee of anything being ported over, and many game companies not (yet) willing to out, with no guarantee they ever will.

No guarantee of ever being able to use my favorite applications and no guarantees as to what kinds of games will be available, but with guarantees on what kinds of games will NOT be available.

This would be fine if it was the App Store. It’s just crap for my New iPad. I never planned on playing Mortal Kombat Super Bloody Gore Version 3,000 on it.
But this is a desktop. My entire life, essentially.
I can’t feel safe with that much of my life under that much control.
Just as my New iPad can be nothing more than a small side part of my life, Windows Metro will, in all of the foreseeable future, be nothing but an on-the-side toy if it has any part in my life at all.
This is unlike my feelings for Windows XP and Windows 7, in which I was entirely fine making either one the main machine in my life.


This is the mentality a lot of people seem to have. People will likely get more and more comfortable with the idea of the Windows machine being just a side as some other platform grows to the forefront of their minds.


L. Spiro

How many of you are starting to consider moving away from Windows in favor of Macintosh OS X or Linux?

I already did that a few years back and really only boot into Windows to play games or work on porting.

Regarding development for me it will depend on sales figures of things like Surface (both the RT and 8 version) and how quickly desktop users pick it up and what sales figures look like from their app store.

[quote name='Alpha_ProgDes' timestamp='1351479246' post='4994918']
Silly question. If Steam and its ilk are allowed in the Windows Store, in the end does this really matter?

Steam could be sold on the Windows Store, but it would be a somewhat dead piece of software since you wouldn’t be able to buy games through it, just run them once you have purchased them from the Windows Store.[/quote]

Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

Regardless of what Microsoft has said of the longevity of its desktop feature, I have doubts about it.[/quote]

Right.. Microsoft is going to jettison their 95% of the desktop market for... what exactly? Just to piss people off? This fear of metro only on x86 is completely illogical. Stop spreading FUD.

<br />There is no guarantee of anything being ported over, and many game companies not (yet) willing to out, with no guarantee they ever will.<br />

You are right... but that is today and the future can go many ways.

One path is that Windows 8 eventually takes off and the store does well and game developers and some applications start being ported or developed for the store and the desktop is eventually removed (but I still hold this as extremely unlikely).

The other is that it doesn't take off... or at least not on desktop PCs. Few port games and apps to it... and Microsoft either gives up and/or looses faith in store model and the desktop continues to thrive like it has for over 20 years now.

I believe it will be somewhere in the middle... Windows Store with both Metro fullscreen and desktop windowed apps using the new WinRT APIs. People will still be able to install software from websites, but thru the new APPX system and 3rd-party installers will be disallowed (weak install tools have been the bane of Windows stability for decades).

Either way it goes... it won't be decided for quite a few years from now. The desktop is still here... you can install any application you want today on Windows 8. Nothing is lost... but there is a hope that this improved WinRT software development and deployment model takes hold.

- Tom

Steam could be sold on the Windows Store, but it would be a somewhat dead piece of software since you wouldn’t be able to buy games through it, just run them once you have purchased them from the Windows Store.

Now this may sound crazy. It probably is. But I figured that Steam would be an app you downloaded from the Windows Store. And from that Steam app, you purchased your games. A bit of a circumvention, if you will.

However, I can't imagine Microsoft going the way of the slippery-slope and allowing only "Kid-friendly" games and apps. I doubt they are trying to be Nintendo. Plus out of the 100,000s of apps in existence, just how many fall into Microsoft's AO ban? 1%? How many games? 5%? I can understand the anxiety of MS going from "get any software you want" to "you must follow these rules or no app for you". But remember there is Android, MacOS (not iOS), and *Nix. Eventually, MS will have to go back to their open development philosophy. IMO, of course.

Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

I get the feeling I am the only one who actually read every word of all of the press releases on this subject.
You should have at least read the link that I handed to you on a silver platter.
Once again:
http://gamasutra.com...hat_.php?page=2

However, it is clear from Microsoft's publications on Windows 8 that in order to participate in the new user interface, you must distribute your application through the Windows Store. That means as of October, Microsoft itself will become the sole source of software for everything you run on a Windows machine that isn't relegated to the older desktop ecosystem.[/quote]
It was clarified below by Rodalpho Carmichael:

Then further clarified by the author of the article:
[quote name='Casey Muratori']That said, the certification requirements _clearly_ prohibit Steam, since one of the requiements[sic] is that you may not download any executable content. So Microsoft would have to make a special exception for Steam. Whether they will or not, or whether Valve will even attempt to go that route given the inherent risk in doing a Metro version only to have it exist solely at the whim of Microsoft, is anyone's guess.

Here he said Steam is prohibited but he was actually talking about just the storefront part of it.

So, what was that bit you said about knowing about what I am talking?

Now this may sound crazy. It probably is. But I figured that Steam would be an app you downloaded from the Windows Store. And from that Steam app, you purchased your games. A bit of a circumvention, if you will.

The above explains it. Circumvention is not allowed except by clearly defined side-loading.
See Appendix B of that article for what constitutes side-loading.

However, I can't imagine Microsoft going the way of the slippery-slope and allowing only "Kid-friendly" games and apps.

I don’t think they were intending to be that harsh.
But the original Mortal Kombat game from 1992 is banned from the store ([s]even after the revisions[/s]).
What do you think are the chances that they never ban any game you want to play in the future?


I guess the main point so far is that everything you get on your Metro machine will be obtained from the Windows Store and nowhere else.
You won’t be getting anything off Steam or Origin.
Everything you run on your machine will have gone through Microsoft’s application process.
Hence it could at best be a secondary machine in my life. And most people who know about the above seem to agree.


L. Spiro

I get the feeling I am the only one who actually read every word of all of the press releases on this subject.

That is not a press release.

That is a very long winded opinion piece by a software developer that runs a website/forum called mollyrocket.com.

You can sum it all up in one sentence... "Be afraid today of what Microsoft might do in a few years". Reading it was a waste of time.

everything you get on your Metro machine will be obtained from the Windows Store and nowhere else.

That cannot be said because it has not happened.

I could say that tomorrow Apple will patent the idea of making "software for entertainment" and legally force all developers to stop making games for all platforms but theirs. Apple has been very litigious with patents... and Apple does have a store where they control what can and cannot be sold... but *STILL* I could not in my right mind say that would be something to be afraid of.

- Tom

It has been established that the article you referenced is out of date. You are also confusing two aspects of Windows 8. There is Windows RT, which is designed to run on ARM devices, primarily phones and tablets. This is not designed to be anyone's primary device! Some tablets, and laptops / desktops running x86 hardware will have full desktop access and not everything will have to go through the store or certification process. Why isn't everyone up in arms that you cannot install steam games on iOS or Android? This is the exact same thing except for the fact that Microsoft also has support for the "mobile" (metro / modern) apps to run on desktop machines. That means you can pretty much write it once (depending on the features you leverage), and run it on the phones, the tablets and the desktop. However to paranoid fanboys, Microsoft is just a large company which must be doing evil stuff, so clearly they are going to act against their best interest just to inconvenience people.

It's probably worth noting that I've been running Windows 8 on my Macbook Pro for months, both in bootcamp and in Parallels. I have not purchased a single application through the store yet. I can run everything on Windows 8 that I can on Windows 7, and for the most part it runs better.

MS beancounters : The shareholders are getting jittery. We aren't doing as well as we used to. Users are migrating to other platforms like android etc. Users are using other free software and depriving us of our income stream.

MS beancounters : (notice how well apple, steam etc are doing out of their walled garden approach to selling software, while taking a 30% tax) Why aren't we doing that? Why didn't we think of that???

Microsoft devs : Well, we could I suppose

MS devs : But we'd have to force people to use it, as developers won't like the idea of paying our tax. And users won't want to pay 30% extra for software. We need to leave people in a position where THEY HAVE NO CHOICE but to pay us everytime they want software.

MS devs : hang on a minute, this would be a great time for us to REVOLUTIONIZE the API and get rid of the old one, while forcing people using the new one to pay us our TAXES in order to operate!!

*pause* .. But what about the people who want to use enterprise software, rather than play angry birds?

MS management : Ah we'll just say that we'll run a backward compatible desktop mode, so everyone will be able to run their old apps etc. This will fool them all into installing it, then once we have the market share, we can quietly remove the desktop mode in a couple of years without their permission, you know! the way we always do!!

MS beancounters : YES YES YES!!!

MS management : And let's slant the whole new system towards tablets and mobile, because that's a huge market that we haven't been able to tap yet. Look at all that money we are missing out on!

management : And the LOOSERS on desktops won't care, they eat up anything we give to them anyway, F*** them!!

(haha mumbled laughter)

I don’t think they were intending to be that harsh.
But the original Mortal Kombat game from 1992 is banned from the store (even after the revisions).
What do you think are the chances that they never ban any game you want to play in the future?

If the original MK (and all its variations) are banned, then I guess that means all the subsequent MK games are banned as well? Which would be strange given that the latest MK is available on Xbox and Halo is rated M is it not? I'll wait until 2013 to see how all of this shakes out. I think MS's attempt to be like Apple is not gonna be as successful as they hoped and they will have to go back and change some of the rules. IE. be far more flexible.