I've had like... 10 wives in Fable so, I'm pretty pimp. I also got my sim married. Whatever, if you want to learn from the best just pm me, I got mad skillz.

On a serious note: I'll be getting married next summer :)

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
I'm not particularly interested in having kids, which is the primary motivation to have a family and therefore to get married - marriage being the classical framework in which to do so. I'm also not particularly interested in the compromises that a marriage requires - I'm a little bit of a prickly person with a penchant for solitude. And, lastly, I'm not convinced that I'm prepared for life-long monogamy.

This. I'll just quote it because there's no point in me repeating it in my own words. I am really torn about kids; what's the point in getting married if you don't have kids? This is the major sticking point for me and many people; even what is the point in a long term relationship with the opposite gender if you don't have kids?

I'm not convinced. The world in which we live is unpleasant, evil, uncertain and horribly overcrowded, and kids are an extremely expensive lifelong commitment which saps your freedom. Plus, as I already said, I don't particularly like kids. However, those who have them say you can't help but devote yourself to them once you have them, so I wonder if I actually had some I would be able to cope?

Quote: Original post by ukdeveloper
what is the point in a long term relationship with the opposite gender if you don't have kids?

Having somebody to share all the high and low points of your life with? That can be pretty rewarding in itself. Also, the obvious: sex.

Granted, you don't necessarily need to have a classic relationship for this, and it doesn't necessarily have to be with someone of the opposite gender. However, classic relationships are the canonical way of achieving this in our society, probably because it turned out to be the most useful arrangement in the long run. Alternative arrangements are certainly possible, but they seem to be harder to pull off (they never really worked out for me, anyway).

Quote: However, those who have them say you can't help but devote yourself to them once you have them, so I wonder if I actually had some I would be able to cope?

Well... to be honest, a lot of the people I know who said they would never have kids really can't live without them now. It's different when it's some other guy's kid; when it's your kid, it's your kid.

It's still a lifetime commitment though, and I don't think it's a step anyone would want to take while they're still in the process of building their career. But on the plus side, while you may not be more prepared to cope with the difficulties of raising a child, I think you'll find that the will to cope would be stronger.

[Edited by - WazzatMan on July 31, 2009 4:03:04 PM]

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
I can't see why I'd want to, other than to "fit in" and "do what's expected," which doesn't seem like a good enough reason.

As I understand, when you get married, the law extends various protections and rights to a person's significant other. A desire to do that would be a practical reason to get married.

Quote: Original post by Yann L
I am really surprised how many people here are married and/or have kids. Not because of the whole game developer thing, but simply due to age demographics.

Don't some of you also get this strange effect, when you turn 30, suddenly all your friends are married and have kids, except for you ? You get invited to "baby parties", baptisms, first birthdays, and whatnot. All your year-long best friends are there, but they suddenly all discuss how great it would be to have a second child, how they selected the pre-school for their kid and they show around a never ending stream of baby pictures, that all look the same. And you feel really out of place, as if transported into another reality ?

Just for the record, I have a GF (for many years), and we don't plan on getting married or having kids any time soon :)

Don't worry, I'm only 19 and already some of the friends I grew up with are either engaged or already married. Granted I tended to have older friends and still do, but even some of my friends who were in my age group are engaged or married.

Hanging out with old friends who are now constantly accompanied by wives or husbands definitely makes the situation awkward for me as if I'm out of place. Of course, we're still friends, and we can still have fun together, but the friendship seems fundamentally changed in a way that I can't put precise words to at this moment. Perhaps it's because I'm so young and I'm simply not used to the idea of marriage.

And then there's teen pregnancy. I'm not even going to comment on this.

I know I'm young to be talking about these things, but based on my prior experience the situation you and Oluseyi have described seems ideal to me (having a girlfriend without plans on getting married and having kids).

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi
Check. All my friends are getting married or already married, and a whole bunch have kids, too. They all ask me when I'm getting married, as does the girlfriend, but I'm really ambivalent about the whole business. I can't see why I'd want to, other than to "fit in" and "do what's expected," which doesn't seem like a good enough reason. Naturally, they either say I'm stalling or that I'll see in a few years. I doubt it.

Agreed. Fortunately my GF shares my views, which avoids uncomfortable discussions.

Quote: Original post by kseh
As I understand, when you get married, the law extends various protections and rights to a person's significant other. A desire to do that would be a practical reason to get married.

It might also be a reason to not get married. The legal implications of marriage, while they certainly have their place, can also get you into a lot of trouble, especially if money and property gets involved. People can change over the years and unforeseen things can happen. I would feel very uncomfortable to legally bind myself to someone else on that level.

Quote: Original post by nilkn
Hanging out with old friends who are now constantly accompanied by wives or husbands definitely makes the situation awkward for me as if I'm out of place. Of course, we're still friends, and we can still have fun together, but the friendship seems fundamentally changed in a way that I can't put precise words to at this moment.

Yep, I have the same feeling. And it gets (much) worse when they have their first baby. For some people, life breaks up into "pre-kid time" and "post-kid time". Anything they did before they got their kids suddenly becomes entirely unimportant, it's a part of their life they just don't value anymore. A lot of year long friendships kind of fade away. Maybe that's just the natural way things go, but it is still a bit sad.

Well, time to look for more like-minded people then [wink]

Quote: Original post by kseh
As I understand, when you get married, the law extends various protections and rights to a person's significant other. A desire to do that would be a practical reason to get married.

If you fundamentally planned to stay with someone indefinitely, maybe. I'm not committed to that idea, which causes intermittent frictions with the girlfriend of the "where is this going?" and "I want to know I'm not wasting my time" variety. Certainly, those legal and fiscal protections/benefits are no reason to get married; they're simply a benefit of being married.

Quote: Original post by Yann L
Fortunately my GF shares my views, which avoids uncomfortable discussions.

I envy you. My girlfriend often acts as if a relationship that doesn't end in marriage is a meaningless waste of time. I think that anything that you enjoyed, grew in and learned from was worth it. We'll see how this turns out.

Quote: Original post by Yann L
...it gets (much) worse when they have their first baby. For some people, life breaks up into "pre-kid time" and "post-kid time". Anything they did before they got their kids suddenly becomes entirely unimportant, it's a part of their life they just don't value anymore. A lot of year long friendships kind of fade away. Maybe that's just the natural way things go, but it is still a bit sad.

It's not really sad. Generally, reproduction is a primary imperative, and human progeny need a godawful lot of parenting to be viable. (A few thrive in the absence of it, or even despite it, but generally we've got to be parents to our kids for nearly 30 years.) It's totally normal, then, that parents enter near-total devotion mode, and I appreciate that they do, really. I sure as hell don't want to be bothered with their nasty little rugrats. [smile]

The thing is that those of us who are not interested in children need to own up to our essential selfishness. Most of the time, our disinterest stems from an unwillingness to sacrifice what we consider "ourselves" for the sake of our offspring. We don't want to be "neutered," to "lose our identities," to trade the sport coupé in for a minivan (dear God!).

I'm perfectly comfortable with the fact that I'm selfish in this regard.

Quote: Original post by Oluseyi

Quote: Original post by Yann L
...it gets (much) worse when they have their first baby. For some people, life breaks up into "pre-kid time" and "post-kid time". Anything they did before they got their kids suddenly becomes entirely unimportant, it's a part of their life they just don't value anymore. A lot of year long friendships kind of fade away. Maybe that's just the natural way things go, but it is still a bit sad.

It's not really sad. Generally, reproduction is a primary imperative, and human progeny need a godawful lot of parenting to be viable. (A few thrive in the absence of it, or even despite it, but generally we've got to be parents to our kids for nearly 30 years.) It's totally normal, then, that parents enter near-total devotion mode, and I appreciate that they do, really. I sure as hell don't want to be bothered with their nasty little rugrats. [smile]

The thing is that those of us who are not interested in children need to own up to our essential selfishness. Most of the time, our disinterest stems from an unwillingness to sacrifice what we consider "ourselves" for the sake of our offspring. We don't want to be "neutered," to "lose our identities," to trade the sport coupé in for a minivan (dear God!).

I'm perfectly comfortable with the fact that I'm selfish in this regard.

I've always been of the opinion that it can be quite selfish to have children. "My" clock is ticking, "I" think they are cute, "I" think it would be fun, "I" want to be a parent. It's a tough world out there and seems like a hell of a thing to bring someone into just because you think it would be a hoot.

Then again I would say I share your brand of selfishness as well. Perhaps the only non selfish option is give up what you want to care for "oops! How did that happen?"

I could also just be looking though my own resentments for being brought into this world when I would rather not have been. So my perspective might be a little colored.

At any rate I don't think my wife entirely shares my view, which could get interesting.