Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
As I said previously, I don't even consider Pirate Dawn to be my best game, let alone "the" best game. That is an assumption that you are all making that is clearly just wrong.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
If anyone really reads Pirate Dawn, and puts it together to where they actually understand what the game is... it should be obvious that it would have been the #2 MMO game after Everquest had it been released in 2002 or so.

Saying it's the 'best game' is a figure of speech. Saying it's the '#2 MMO in the world' is arrogance.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
I am also saying that, since MMO games have not evolved at all since 1998, that it would probably still be the #2 MMO game today.

Completely wrong.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
I am not saying "look at me, I am the greatest".

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
My name is Marc Michalik and I have been designing games and simulations since before the computer game industry even existed.

That has pretty much means "look at me, I am the greatest" for most people.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
As for "where is the revolutionary stuff", I did direct you to a few specific examples.

Where are they, again?

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
In Pirate Dawn the enitre game revolves aroung the "clans", rather than "clans" simply being a unrelated thing on a web site.

Again, have you ever played World of Warcraft? I'm not a connoisseur on the subject, but I believe that there are very well defined teams that affect in-game actions.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
...rather than being a single player game that a bunch of other people just happen to be playing at the same time.

Is the only MMORPG you've ever played RuneScape?

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
Once some people have really, truly had time to read it... they can describe some of these things for me.

As game designer it is your job to explain and describe it, not other people's. And no-one (well, maybe you will get someone) is going to read an uninterrupted 197 page document for some random guy on the Internet. It takes an average person speed-reads at 200wpm with 60% comprehension rate. So that means that they'll take over 15 hours straight to remember most of it. I don't know many people that generous.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
You have to put it all together to the point that you can envision how the game will play out in your mind to truly appreciate how this really is so very different than other MMO games.

Once again, you said you saved a game from an empty engine and wrote the entire thing single-handedly. Make us a demo!

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
Finally, I understand that my "marketing strategy" may appear insane. At 40, and with more actual game design experience than most people working in the computer game industry, I am past making little games with some tool or any path like that.

Don't try that crap - that you're 'arrogance' was all part of some big plan. You're just trying to redeem yourself.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
Three letters telling me that these people believe that some 20 year old kid with a defree from the "Devry School of Game Design" "more closely matches the requirements of the position" was all I could take. The last straw. These people are just plain incompenant.

Who's incompetent again?

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
Someone said something about "arrogance"... "Arrogance" is telling someone with over 25 years of experience with game and simulation design that some 20 year old kid "more closely matches the requirments of the position". *That* is "arrogance".

That's smart. I wouldn't hire you either.

I don't like you. :P

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
Someone said something about "arrogance"... "Arrogance" is telling someone with over 25 years of experience with game and simulation design that some 20 year old kid "more closely matches the requirments of the position". *That* is "arrogance".

Stolen from someone else's post, hopefully they didn't mess up the quote, I'm just pointing this out for people who wonder why they get turned down at job interviews when they have a great work history and are 'clearly better' than someone that did get hired.


Job requirements may include:
1. Are willing to work for cheap. Younger people just out of school with less experience feel they're less likely to get hired, so will often undercut older, more experienced people in the wages.

2. Are new, and bring fresh ideas. Someone who has been doing the same things for 20 years is likely to continue to do the same things for the next 20. (Keep your portfolios varied!)

3. Are fun, interesting, and easy to get along with. This is most important for any job. If the guy doing the hiring thinks "God, I couldn't stand to meet this guy in the hall, let alone spend time at the office Christmas party with him without strangling his arrogant ass!", you're not likely to get the job even if you're the son of a Deity.

Quote: Original post by Pirate_Lord
But I'm putting it out there because, well, why not? I really don't care anymore. I'm done.

Sorry, but you're not fooling anyone. You *clearly* care a great deal. Otherwise, you wouldn't have spent the time to write a 200 page design document, nor would you have found a game development website, and you certainly wouldn't have written a half dozen long posts refuting what other people have said. So stop beating around the bush and get to the point - whatever that may be.

Well, I could have come in here being very humble and diplomatic but what would that have achieved? I had tried that route for a long time. Nobody responds too that. I haven’t actually paid much attention to games for the last few years. I really “retired” a few years ago by just becoming sick of trying anymore. After a while I came up with this insane idea. I just thought it would be fun to speak my mind on my way out, and maybe even get lucky and run into someone who knows a game designer when they see one... if there is anyone like that in computer game industry, that is.

And, no, this isn’t the “fun” part for me. This is the hard work part. The fun part comes after the storm that I am creating subsides.

As for the “arrogance”… How does it feel? It’s exactly how people in the computer game industry have always talked too me, so I figured I’d talk back too them that way for a while. After all, I was designing games before many of them were even playing them… exactly who is it that is being “arrogant” here, anyway?

Especially about 10-15 years ago… Back then my credentials should have towered above almost any other candidate. But I never got any response other than “arrogance”… because they had no idea what they were looking for in a “game designer”. You can flame on about what a jerk I must be, but how would they know that if they never even respond in the first place? In fact, I’ve been hired by every game company that has ever interviewed me… both of them. You can make some lame joke about “arrogance”, but obviously I wasn’t speaking like this back then. Imagine how “arrogant” those programmers and artists posing as “game designers” sounded too me back then, explaining too me how difficult it all was. Right… I just thought I’d give a few of them a taste of their own medicine.

I’m sure there are many reasons that every version of my resume was ignored all but once, but I think a major factor is this “arrogance” that whoever it is that is making these decisions seems to have. That really is a good word you guys have chosen. I would imagine that it rarely, if ever, got past the first person to read it. Here’s an example. One of the things I’ve done that should be most relevant too you people was that I am the person who made team sports games actually work. By that, I mean produce realistically accurate statistical results with realistically rated players. Before my “IKNFL Unofficial Stat Patch” for Sierra’s Front Page Sports Football series QBs threw for 12,000 yards per season, runners would get 9,000, and lots of defensive players would have 40 or so sacks. The player ratings themselves appeared to be determined entirely at random. Remember those days? Remember when that all changed around the turn of the century? Did you ever wonder when playing a team sports game… “This really is all very complex, I wonder who it was that actually worked all of this out”? Well, now you’ve met him... It also might very well have been the first true “mod” ever, starting in 1995 on The Imagination Network and a rough draft winding up in an “Extras” directory on the FPS:FB Pro ’98 CD as “an alternate configuration” for the game. Can anyone tell me how to put that on a resume without it winding up in a trash can? I’m pretty sure that I never found a way. Nobody cares because I wasn’t working at Sierra when I did it. They just seem to miss the “this guy single-handedly revolutionized an entire genre” aspect of it. In my personal opinion, which is just my best guess, this is an example of the main reason that I’ve been ignored.

The version of IKNFL that is on the FPSFB98 CD is actually an early rough draft of the “real” IKNFL98e/IKNFL98f stat patches. There really is a vast difference between what is on the CD and the true final files that earned the reputation that some of you may even remember hearing rumblings about back then. I was right at the beginning of a major breakthrough when they needed the file. Anyone that was interested enough to take a look would want IKNFL98e or f (e for 98 or f for 97; 97 with f is the best configuration). You probably won’t find them anywhere these days, but I have them and can provide them too anyone who wants them.

As for any “grandiose claims” some think I may have made in my initial post, maybe you should re-read my initial post and compare it too the back of the boxes of some of your games. I’d say I was being rather mild in comparison. I tried being humble for a long time, for the last few years the very few things I’ve tried have been the opposite of that. Why not? I don’t care what they think anymore, and it’s the only thing I haven’t tried already.

--Marc Michalik (A.K.A. Pirate_Lord)
Lost Art Studios – www.piratedawn.com

Someone had previously mentioned that the “degradation” of communications would just be annoying. I was intent on just letting the initial storm pass at the time so I missed taking that opportunity to answer a good question. If anyone out there is actually trying to understand the game, here is some help on communications.

“Degradation” occurs only between ships in space. Several other forms of communication are possible. The simplest way to get “clear” communications is to just dock at any facility (they are everywhere, you are always near something). All facilities have a clear chat channel between them within the star system they are in (“local system chat”), but that “local system chat” does not include the chat of ships in space. There is also “ColNet”. This is a more “global” way of communicating, with people anywhere in the game (even if they aren’t online) but is essentially “artificially delayed email”.

The only way to communicate in real-time with players in other star systems is to use one of the two “highest level” communication sets. One uses a player-constructed network of relay stations, while the other uses “sci-fi magic” to just communicate perfectly with anyone else who has that same communication set. Other than these exceptions, “normal communication” between ships in space is greatly limited in this game. One intervening terrain feature will break things up quite a bit, while two will mostly if not completely black you out.

On the other hand, the map and radar are divided into an alpha numeric grid. Whenever a transmission is sent, the receiving player gets certain information regardless of how degraded the message is (assuming it is not so degraded as to not be received at all). You see the name of the player, and the map grid (i.e. C6), that the transmission came from. So if it is a message you are truly interested in, receiving it at all provides you with the most valuable information even if it is so degraded that you can’t make out a single word. You can simply begin flying towards that map grid. You’ll see the intervening terrain on radar, and know when you are clear to ask what they wanted… or just show up on the scene and find out for yourself.

This can be significantly overcome by building a “command and control” ship, but the extended range of communications of such ships in “normal transmissions” only works between other similarly equipped ships. Think about the implications of all of this for a while in an MMO game where everything revolves around the “clans” for a while. It means that generally the “leaders” of the organizations are in communication with each other, because those strategic minded players are the ones who are going to do a thing like build a ship that is mostly hi-tech communication equipment. So the leaders communicate to coordinate their efforts across star systems, while the rest of the “local” players hear of things from their leaders who consider their “com ship” to be an important tool in their arsenal for how they play the game. It has many other implications as well, that is just a good example of one of them.

I really would be thrilled to explain any aspects of the game that anyone is interested in.

--Marc Michalik (A.K.A. Pirate_Lord)
Lost Art Studios – www.piratedawn.com

There is no entry level post of game designer, unless you start your own studio (and then you'll need to bring your own fianance, as no one will fund you). Vast amounts of experience are required to be a lead designer.

Ideas are a dozen a penny.

You also need to differentiate arrogence from a position of nothingness with confidence from years of being in the business.

first of all:
all attention != good attention.
Learn this.
Live by this.

now, to take a look at some of your 'revolutionary' design ideas.

degraded commmunication:
this will always be a pain that can be compared to eating glass. There is nothing worse (especially for MMOs) than making communication hard. it essentially results in:
1. I can't talk to my buddy Craig who playing in a different area without undergoing communication hell.
2. I can't plan things well with my buddy Craig when we're playing together.
3. I can't talk to people in my guild/corporation/clan whenever I so desire.

This essentially is a disincentive to play in a social manner, when the entire purpose of social playing is communication.

Any player would much rather have clear and direct communication with their friends, than more 'immersion/realism'. You fail to realise that there is a distinct separation of character/avatar and player. Players want to be able to communicate instantly, not have to wait for some cryptic flag on their minimap to tell them that your friend sent them a message half an hour ago from the location C6, but you are unable understand any of it, then fly for half an hour finding this friend, only to find out that the message was just "lol" in response to some crappy joke you cracked yesterday.

Thus the fact that you claim that you are creating a more social MMO are completely contradicted by the breakdown of communication between players, which rather than encouraging social playing enforces solitude. It doesn't take many half-hour treks to the other side of the galaxy to receive "lol" or "ok" to convince me that it is not a good decision to do so. Now, you will argue that people won't be making small responses like "lol" or "ok" because of the nature of the chat system, and this in itself is a huge gaping flaw. People who play MMOs often do so to _communicate_ with their friends, even if they aren't necessarily playing in the same area of the game-world, to make this process inherently difficult leads to a great deal of frustration while essentially adding nothing to gameplay, but rather detracting from it.

and for fear of this growing into a 200 page monstrosity that is all for now.

Thank you
-Poul

P.S. eagerly awaiting your response (that will invariably prove that you still aren't getting the point)

Quote: Original post by firemonk3y
Thank you
-Poul

P.S. eagerly awaiting your response (that will invariably prove that you still aren't getting the point)

Actually, you have missed the point of that post. I wasn't saying that the communications was any big thing. If you look back in the thread you'll find that someone had asked about this issue. I was answering that person's question.

To answer some of yours...

"1. I can't talk to my buddy Craig who playing in a different area without undergoing communication hell."

You can if you get the right communication set. But it will use more energy and, by definition, you will give up some other capability. There are reasons why communications need to be limited in this game. For example, if you are really good you wouldn't want everyone on the other side to be able to easily find you whenever they wanted, would you? It might become hard to play.


"2. I can't plan things well with my buddy Craig when we're playing together."

Yes, you can, meet him at a facility. Or send him a ColNet e-mail. Comminications in space are primarily for speaking with the people in your immediate area, the people that you are playing with and against.


"3. I can't talk to people in my guild/corporation/clan whenever I so desire."

That depends on where you are. If you are operating beyond the range of your organization than that is true. If you are operating within the range of your organization than you can communicate with them.

The "Corporate Relay Station" facility effectively extends the "operating range" of members of an organization by allowing not only communications with the "corporate WAN", but full "shadow access" to the organization's HQ. A Corporate Relay Station is essentially a carbon copy of your HQ. So how effectively you operate will depend on how established your organization is in that star system.

Of course, you might "merge" with an organization that is already well-established in areas where yours is not. Then you would share access to facilities with that organization, and both would gain "supported access" to a wider area of space.

-- Marc Michalik (A.K.A. Pirate_Lord)
Lost Art Studios – www.piratedawn.com

Quote: Original post by Captain Griffen
There is no entry level post of game designer, unless you start your own studio (and then you'll need to bring your own fianance, as no one will fund you). Vast amounts of experience are required to be a lead designer.

Ideas are a dozen a penny.

You also need to differentiate arrogence from a position of nothingness with confidence from years of being in the business.

That's actualy one thing I mean when I say "Game Designer is not a valid job description within the computer game industry". I understand and agree with what you are saying. In fact, I did try to start my own studio for a while. I am definately a game designer and not a businessman, that's for sure.

As I've said before, Pirate Dawn isn't the #2 MMO game because I made it. I made it because it is the #2 MMO game. It has a lot of unfair advantages. Really, there are many reasons I took this game so far. One of them is that it was the game I had been told by industry people that they wanted from me. It really is. Someone had mentioned earlier in the thread how all they really care about is how much money it will make. Well, I have nicknames for the games I'd like to make that I consider to be the "special ones" that I've come up with over the years, and my knickname for Pirate Dawn is "The Money Game".

It was all the things I'd been told my whole life that you are alegedly looking for. Any child can just pick up the controller and start playing, and yet it is an immensesly deep game that will satisfy a hard-core gamer. It is based on a popular (i.e. marketable) subject matter, and is primarily a console game. It's a simple, fun game of blasting things to bits. Yet, at the same time, it is a massive endlessly evolving virtual galaxy. It is technoligcally simple and inexpensive too produce, and yet has the potential to make huge amounts of money. Unless I had misunderstood what they were telling me, this is exactly what they said they wanted.

As I've said several times, I have worked in both the computer game industry and the board game industry.

-- Marc Michalik (A.K.A. Pirate_Lord)
Lost Art Studios – www.piratedawn.com

Quote: Original post by zer0wolf
A GDO, or game design overview, is usually a 6 page (or less) document used to sum up an entire game design and pitch it to a publisher.

QFT.
THQ wants 3 pages, which are supposed to cover the game concept AND the team's experience/background AND the business case.

You can't pitch a 200 page doc to a publisher.