Newbie, Doubledose,

If I'm understanding correctly, you both do not have experience in C or C++? I don't think buying the GD kit is the best thing at the moment. You need to first be comfortable with the language before you can jump in with game programming. Yeah, it sucks.. but the "pain and suffering" you go through learning the language will pay off later.

The GD kit comes with several books on CD you say? I haven't found reading a programming book in acrobat format too appealing. You'll better off with a paperback where you don't have to put up with the frustrations of trying to find something-- it's easier to jump to the index with a physical book, etc..

Here's what I suggest- You should consider spending the money on a good compiler. The ones in the GD kit's have been relatively dated and limited.

For about $120, you can get the latest version of Borland C++ Builder Professional(v4 I believe). You can get the discounted price because you are a student (I assume). Check out http://www.micromasteronline.com/ for latest pricing.

Edit Note: look for 'Inprise Builder v4.0 Professional' it is listed at $96 right now

My reasoning behind getting the Borland builder compiler?
1. It should come with Borland C++ v5.02 ona seperate CD (edit node: it does, I just checked). BC++ 5.02 allows you to compile DOS and Win32 games. Visual C++ v6 does not.

2. When you are ready to jump into Win32 programming (not DirectX), Borland Builder provides an interface much like Visual Basic (drag and drop items-- NOTE: Visual C++ is NOT like Visual Basic in that sense.). Borland Builder's RAD interface( what the drag-drop thing is referred to) can also be disabled so that you can program DirectX games without all the weight of the RAD slowing the program down.

3. Borland Builder allows for more growth for you as a programmer. You can start in DOS and move your way into RAD Windows programming and even into DirectX.

4.It includes a fully functional version of TASM (assembler). MS VC++ does include MASM.

Now, I'm not advocating Borland vs. Microsoft compilers. I'm considering overall value for price for you guys. For $120 you get 2 compilers. One strictly Win32 (with RAD or w/o ) and one that allows either DOS, Win16 or Win32.

As far as books go, I would consider other people's suggestions for that. (I favor Jan Slamsholm's 'C++ From the Beginning' published by Addison-Wesley ISBN: 0-201-40377-3 .. mainly because it is a very complete C++ book. It may not be the best for beginner's, though)

Six

[This message has been edited by Sixpack (edited December 01, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Sixpack (edited December 01, 1999).]

sixpack,
I've been seeing the need to upgrade my compiler from (Borland C++ Builder 3) to something newer. I've experienced some problems in Builder, like system crashing randomly coming out of a debugging session (could be fixed with switching to WinNT?). There is no assembler and there is only limited MFC support (so it's hard to compile and run most DirectX tutorials out there). The question, VC++ or Borland Builder 4 (I'm getting the professional version this time)?

joeg,
All Professional versions of Builder came with TASM. Standard editions did not come with it. I cannot speak for the MFC support. It would be best to check out the inprise newsgroups for that information.

What it comes down to is this-- what is your current situation?

If:Are you only going to be designing for the Win32 platform? Do you have no need for use of the RAD (not used for DirectX)? Do you want seamless compatibility with MS API's (including DirectX, MFC,etc..)? If you said yes to these questions, by all means, do not overlook Visual C++ in this respect. Great deals of people use MSVC++. But don't expect to be able to compile 16-bit DOS apps with the latest versions.

IF: You're just starting out and want to get the most bang for your buck, take a hard look at the Inprise Builder Pro package. You essentially getting two compilers for a low (student) price. Since Inprise is not MS and does not use compatible MS .lib's for DirectX, you may run into some compatbility issues somewhere down the road. Borland C++ v5.02 (included in the package) gives you the means to write for DOS. DOS is easier than programming for Windows in many respects. It is a different style of programming that many might find easier to start out on.

I'm not saying to buy one over the other. I'm only presenting my suggestion.

Six

I originally wanted to get borland c++ builder 4 standard ( ididn't know about the discounted price for the other because i'm a student) but when i was at best buy with my brother and dad, we happen to see the GP starter kit, and thought that it might be good to get. However, now i believe i was right with my original choice in wanting the Borland 4.0 builder, and i hope thats what i get. Everyone here has been very helpful, thank you.

Doubledose,
If you choose to go with Borland Builder, be sure to get the Professional version. The standard version does NOT include BC++ v5.02 ( which allows DOS apps)

Six

I was originally planning on getting standard, because the $300 + price tag on professional was a bit out of my budget. However, now that i've checked out Micro Master and realized that i'm eligible for the discounted student prices, i'm going to get the Professional.

The "Game programmers starters kit" is the wrong place to start. Version 2 was a waste of time, full of stuff i've never used. When you are starting out you don't want to waste your time messing around with someone else's engine, you want to be coding for yourself and learning how it's done.
What you should get is Visual C++ 6 standard edition (~$80), the DirectX 7 SDK ($12), and then some books. Have a look at "Beginning C++ : The complete language", but there are loads of good C/C++ books. To find good books, look at customer reviews on www.amazon.com for genuinely impartial advice. Then get a good Win32 programming book ("Windows 98 programming from the ground up" is very good), and then get Lamothe's new book "Tricks of the 3D Windows Game Programming Gurus". You may also wish to get some generalized 3d programming books, to learn how to write your own software rendering engine, although all these books are old and only concerned with DOS.

I'm going to get the Game Programming Starter kit 3.0 for Christmas, and I wanted to know that if its any good. I know very little about programming, and didn't know if this is something a beginer should. Any help? Thanks.

--Late, Matt

I would say definately don't get the starter kit. The book is has nothing to do with programming, but is more about how to get into the business and such. There is no printed manual to teach you how to use the 3D engine that's included, which would've be helpful since it is a "starter-kit". Also, Lamothe's new book comes with this same engine and a few others on the CD! So that is one good reason to get Lamothe's book instead. The MSVC++ 6.0 standard should be plenty until you start having to worry about dynamic linking vs static linking, and fun stuff like that! Good luck!

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