quote: Original post by sunandshadow

Hmm, well I saw such a moon, but I don''t know how much "two hours above the horizon" is. It was below the level of the tallest trees, I figured that was just above the horizon. I was actually thinking of a white oriental paper screen, but waxed paper or crepe paper would also look like that.

Oriental paper screen! That''s what I was trying to think of. Instead all I could come up with was crepe paper.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
Oh, I didn''t think of that. I''ll just use a different word. Maybe "the sky was richly spangled with stars".

Where did you come up with ''panapoly'' and ''spangled'' anyway? What I mean is, these are good words. I thought I used these once in a description of a starry night in the High Sierra. I went back and read what I wrote and it was this:

Night settles in and the sky becomes ablaze with the light of ten billion stars. At high altitude away from the lights of the metropolis or suburbs, the Milky Way''s true magnitude becomes more evident. Your mind reels from the implications as it attempts to digest this vast and infinite vision. My eye catches a tiny dot of light moving across the heavens: a satellite. I lose it, gone from my vision. A moment later, I spy another. And then another.

But somewhere, I''m sure I used those words. Oh well. Anyway, a night at high altitude (12,000 feet) truly brings to mind the word ''panapoly''. Actually, it''s more like a ghostly veil of light draped across the heavens...

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
I know lots about Native Americans. I could see that in the story although that wasn''t actually what I was trying for. I was thinking of Wendy and Richard Pini''s _Elfquest_

Ahh, so you were drawing from some other Fantasy work then? Guilty again!

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
Again, a great idea, I''ll do that. The moon has turned white because it''s not being hit by light refracted through the atmosphere anymore, right?

Sort of. Basically, light from the horizon travels through more atmosphere scattering the blue wavelengths, leaving mostly warmer toned wavelengths to arrive at your eyes. Look at the color of the environment around you right before the sun sets. Everything is bathed in a warm glow. Photographer''s call this ''quality of light''. As the Moon rises, its light travels through less atmosphere, and so there is less opportunity for the blue wavelenghts to scatter. So, most of the light arrives intact, making the Moon whiter.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
Maybe I''ll make you a deal - you read a book off my list, I''ll read a book off your list?

That sounds like an interesting deal. What are your suggestions? It seems you''ve read most of my SF ''greats''. I think you''ll have to read one of my mainstream selections.

quote: Original post by bishop_pass
Where did you come up with ''panapoly'' and ''spangled'' anyway? What I mean is, these are good words.

I''m sure I''ve heard both of those used in reftrence to stars before somewhere, they''re pretty standard "star" phrases along with pinholes in the sky, little lights in the sky, scattered points of light, stars in the sky like grains of sand, diamonds, winking stars, drops of various bodily fluids, etc. I used them because I was trying for a traditional feel. If I was trying to be original I would have said... oh... "it was like sitting at the center of an enormus dandelion puff" or "the faraway flames of a million candles" or "celestial dandruff" or something.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
I know lots about Native Americans. I could see that in the story although that wasn''t actually what I was trying for. I was thinking of Wendy and Richard Pini''s _Elfquest_

quote:
Ahh, so you were drawing from some other Fantasy work then? Guilty again!

NOT guilty. I''m still trying to improve that you can build excellent original fiction using existing fiction from your genre. I usually take elements I liked from 5 or 6 books, recombine them, add some completely new elements, and that''s my recipie for the worldbuilding for a novel. Well, everything except the culture, which takes a lot more work of a different kind.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
Maybe I''ll make you a deal - you read a book off my list, I''ll read a book off your list?

That sounds like an interesting deal. What are your suggestions? It seems you''ve read most of my SF ''greats''. I think you''ll have to read one of my mainstream selections.

I was thinking you look at reviews of the ones on my list that you haven''t read, and pick what you want to read. but _Voyager in Night_ only counts as half a book because it''s so short, so if you want to read that you have to read something else too. And I''ll do the same for your list, unless you want to provide me with a different/cleaned up one.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
... or "celestial dandruff" or something.

I'm sorry, but "celestial dandruff" just does not cut it.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
I was thinking you look at reviews of the ones on my list that you haven't read, and pick what you want to read. but _Voyager in Night_ only counts as half a book because it's so short, so if you want to read that you have to read something else too. And I'll do the same for your list, unless you want to provide me with a different/cleaned up one.

Okay then, here's my different/cleaned up list. Note: I'm taking into consideration the fact that you say you've read Vinge, Vance, Varley, etc. and so am not going to include those in my list. And because you didn't specify genre, I'm going to put a lot of my mainstream ones in there and 'encourage' you to pick one of those up.

The Mythago Wood - Robert Holdstock
Startide Rising - David Brin (read before The Uplift War )
Ringworld Larry Niven
Intensity - Dean Koontz
Strangers - Dean Koontz
Postmortem - Patricia Cornwell (the first in the series)
Bloodstream - Tess Gerritsen
Legacies - F. Paul Wilson (second in series, but stands on it's own)
Side Effects - Michael Palmer
The Red Scream - Mary Willis Walker
The Purification Ceremony - Mark Sullivan

Okay, most of those are mainstream. Wilson and Koontz are crossover, I would say. Now, I want to know what you select before you start reading.



Edited by - bishop_pass on March 14, 2001 11:31:22 PM

Hmmm...

I''m leaning towards Cyteen.

Sorry I keep changing my list. I went back and added some that you say you may have read because I feel my list is not complete without some of the truly best ones on there. So I added Vinge, Vance, Farmer, Simmons, etc.

I also divided it onto three categories. I enjoyed all of these books. Since this topic is about SF, I rounded out the SF category, and there are some really good ones in there. But since it seems you have read most of my SF ones listed and I have been strssing that good SF can draw from real life, I would say that a great deal could be derived from any selection in the other categories. Besides, these are just plain good books.

SF / F

The Mythago Wood - Robert Holdstock
To Your Scattered Bodies Go - Philip Jose Farmer
Titan - John Varley
Red Mars - Kim Stanley Robinson
Planet of Adventure - Jack Vance
Hyperion - Dan Simmons
A Fire Upon the Deep - Vernor Vinge
Ender's Game - Ender's Game
Startide Rising - David Brin (read before The Uplift War )
Ringworld - Larry Niven

Crossover / Horror / Paranormal

The Stand - Stephen King
Strangers - Dean Koontz
Legacies - F. Paul Wilson (second in series, but stands on its own)
Carrion Comfort - Dan Simmons
Houses of Stone - Barbara Michaels

Mystery / Suspense / Thriller

Intensity - Dean Koontz
Postmortem - Patricia Cornwell (the first in the series)
Bloodstream - Tess Gerritsen
Side Effects - Michael Palmer
The Red Scream - Mary Willis Walker
The Purification Ceremony - Mark Sullivan




Edited by - bishop_pass on March 15, 2001 11:25:03 AM

I think I''ll pick _The Stand_. I''ve read a few other books with the "almost everybody dies" premise, and I liked them all. (Emergence, The Girl Who Owned a City, etc.) I don''t know about this ''big showdown between good and evil'' buisness, but we''ll see. My second choice would be _Planet of Adventure_.

I have read a Brin, by the way: _Glory Season_. It was good fiction, with so-so science fictional elements. Oh, and to give you an example of the mainstream novels I read, which I realize I haven''t done yet: _Plays Well With Others_ by Allan Gurganus is probably my favorite.

Cyteen is an interesting choice. Please be aware that it is NOT a murder mystery, even if the cover blurb says it is - I know two or three people who had to try reading the book twice because the first time they were expecting it to be something it wasn''t. Mostly _Cyteen_ is about power, psychology, politics, sociology, and really smart people. Hmm, from reading the descriptions of the books on your list I would have guessed you would pick _The Unlimited Dream Company_ or the Sugar Trilogy. But by all means, read _Cyteen_ if it sounds cool. What did you think looked interesting about it? Oh, warning it has small amounts of gay stuff, one S+M scene, and some psychological torture, hope none of that bothers you too much.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow

I think I'll pick _The Stand_.

An interesting choice, and a good one! It's been many years since I read that one.

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
My second choice would be _Planet of Adventure_.

And that one would've been good also. Al in all, just a really fun book. You said you've read Vance, so which ones? Planet of Adventure is actually these four novels strung together: City of the Chasch, Servants of the Wankh, The Dirdir, and The Pnume . So if you've read any of those, you've read part of Planet of Adventure .

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
I have read a Brin, by the way: _Glory Season_. It was good fiction, with so-so science fictional elements.

Glory Season ! I read that one. To tell you the truth, had I thought of it when I was building my list, it would have been on there. I really liked Glory Season .

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
Cyteen is an interesting choice. Please be aware that it is NOT a murder mystery, even if the cover blurb says it is - I know two or three people who had to try reading the book twice because the first time they were expecting it to be something it wasn't. Mostly _Cyteen_ is about power, psychology, politics, sociology, and really smart people. Hmm, from reading the descriptions of the books on your list I would have guessed you would pick _The Unlimited Dream Company_ or the Sugar Trilogy. But by all means, read _Cyteen_ if it sounds cool. What did you think looked interesting about it? Oh, warning it has small amounts of gay stuff, one S+M scene, and some psychological torture, hope none of that bothers you too much.

Maybe I would have picked one of the others, but I can't find any info or reviews on some of those. I'm using Amazon for lack of anthing else. What are you using? Cyteen looked interesting becasue of the psychological aspects and, I admit, the murder mystery element. I'm probably hitting a bookstore tonight, and I'll review some of the others on your list if I can find them.

Patricia Cornwell's works, beginning with Postmortem have some gay issues in them.

I kind of thought you would have selected Mythago Wood . And regardless of your choice, I think you're just gonna have to read Intensity , Legacies , and perhaps Postmortem also. There's just no arguing about it.



Edited by - bishop_pass on March 15, 2001 9:34:21 PM

My apologies for intruding, but my Editor''s Instincts prevailed...

"The playful summer breeze caressed me as I sat on the broad lowest limb of a grandmotherly tree, contemplating the moon. It was a peculiar moon, hanging huge and smoky orange just above the horizon. Really, it looked not so muck like a moon as like a perfect circle of white paper through which one could catch a glimpse of some celestial campfire. It was full dark an hour past, and the full panoply of stars spangled the sky, although the faintest few were drowned out by the moon’s radiance. The night was lovely and very lonely."

Removing the overdose of adverbs and adjectives...

"The summer breeze caressed me as I sat on the lowest limb of a tree, contemplating the moon. It was full dark an hour past, and stars spangled the sky. The night was lovely and very lonely."

I would replace the word "spangled", myself, but I was trying to stick with the original wording of the paragraph.

Thanks for indulging me. Now that I have that off my chest, I''ll butt out once again. You two can argue in peace.

Have fun!


DavidRM
Samu Games

The only Vance I've read is Araminta Station.

It hadn't ocurred to me that amazon might not have good descriptions for some of the books on my list, but it does make sense for the older ones. I thought you would pick __The Unlimited Dream Company_ because it's set realistically in near-past England, and it's a mystery about what the main character is, how his powers work, and why his good impulses sometimes get expressed as violence. There's also fertility religion stuff, sociology of people's behavior when the economy becomes irrelevant, and lots of icarus symbolism. Unfortunately this book is out of print, so you would have to find it in a library or buy it through www.bookfinder.com

The Sugar trilogy, interestingly enough, also has a fertility religion - it's a mystery about how the world described in the book is connected to the real world, as well as how the culture in the book adapts to realllly long years and seasons. It has sociology about how religion directs individuals' efforts for the good of society, but not necessarily for the good of the individuals. It has elements of 16-18th century british mythology juxtaposed with genetics and chemistry. Last I knew amazon had some of these for sale. It was printed once as three volumes and once, for no apparent reason, as an omnibus of the first two, plus another volume. The omnibus is titled _Sugar Festival_ and the three indivual volumes are titled _the cult of loving kindness_, _sugar rain_, and _soldiers of paradise, but I forget what order they go in except that sugar rain is #2.

Edited by - sunandshadow on March 16, 2001 12:57:31 PM

quote: Original post by sunandshadow

The only Vance I've read is Araminta Station.

It hadn't ocurred to me that amazon might not have good descriptions for some of the books on my list, but it does make sense for the older ones. I thought you would pick __The Unlimited Dream Company_ because it's set realistically in near-past England, and it's a mystery about what the main character is, how his powers work, and why his good impulses sometimes get expressed as violence. There's also fertility religion stuff, sociology of people's behavior when the economy becomes irrelevant, and lots of icarus symbolism. Unfortunately this book is out of print, so you would have to find it in a library or buy it through www.bookfinder.com

I went to a couple of used bookstores and found some interesting books. I need to go to used bookstores more often. I saw lots of SF that I read years ago and just plain forogot about. I looked at Dhalgren . Maybe I'll give that one a try. But do you actively seek out books with gay stuff in them? The cover style looks familiar on this old paperback. Did Delaney write a book about some dude driving a van around the desert with a leopard?

I bought some Vance books, what the heck, they looked fun. I also bought a J. G. Ballard book that looked interesting. But I couldn't find The Unlimited Dream Comapny .

quote: Original post by sunandshadow
The Sugar trilogy, interestingly enough, also has a fertility religion - it's a mystery about how the world described in the book is connected to the real world, as well as how the culture in the book adapts to realllly long years and seasons. It has sociology about how religion directs individuals' efforts for the good of society, but not necessarily for the good of the individuals. It has elements of 16-18th century british mythology juxtaposed with genetics and chemistry. Last I knew amazon had some of these for sale. It was printed once as three volumes and once, for no apparent reason, as an omnibus of the first two, plus another volume. The omnibus is titled _Sugar Festival_ and the three indivual volumes are titled _the cult of loving kindness_, _sugar rain_, and _soldiers of paradise, but I forget what order they go in except that sugar rain is #2.

I couldn't find that one either. I've looked at Cyteen and I'm having second thoughts. I'm not sure about Xenogenisis . In Conquest Born looks pretty interesting.

I've never used Bookfinder, but the used book dealers seem to agree that www.abebooks.com is THE site for locating and buying rare and out-of-print books.

So, have you finished The Stand yet?




Edited by - bishop_pass on March 17, 2001 11:30:02 PM