You wake up and its cold. Its hard to see. You are in a dark cave.

Where do you want to go? (N,S,E,W) : >



:)

Eh...

So, whoever created the original RPG was someone who made it medeival? I mean, RPG stands for Role-Playing Game. You pick some role, and you play it. It's not specific... Besides, I mean, if you JUST keep it to medieval, RPGs/MMORPGs are going to get boring REALLY fast...

I'm open minded, that's about it.

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Original post by MSW Quote: Original post by makeshiftwings Most people like RPG's because they like medieval fantasy. Sure, some people like them just because of stat placement and slow-paced combat, and want to see that mechanic transfered into other settings, but they're the minority. In addition to being a minority, they're often a very bitter and hard-to-please minority with almost no agreement on what would make a "better" setting than the standards of medieval/future/postapocalyptic. Or conversely most hardcore fans of midevil fantasy RPGs agrue against more original settings out of the insecure fear that thier beloved genre may not need standard settings by which to define it.

As I said in some other thread where you and I had almost the same argument, fantasy is going to be around a long time after all of us are dead. I don't have any fear about that.

What I'm trying to do is give an explanation as to why retail companies make games in genres/settings that people like, rather than ones that nobody has asked for. It's not because all professional developers are uninspired and stupid, as so many people around here like to imply. It's because "originality" as this thread is using the term means "alienation" and "much smaller target audience" and "probably will fail without a massive marketing budget and a lot of luck".

The second fallacy I see in here a lot is that not only are the developers stupid, but that the audience and players are stupid as well, or perhaps brainwashed, and that somehow it's the indie developer's job to force them to like something new. Some people go into bookstores and know they want mysteries or sci-fi. Some people go into movie rental places and know they want action or horror. If you try to tell someone "I'm making a movie genre that's like horror, but it's original. Instead of having things that scare you, it will have things that make you hungry!", 90% of them will have no interest. They know they like their genres, and they know enough about them to know that they can find originality in different forms within the genre itself.

This is just a fact, no matter how much people may want to cover up their ears and ignore it.

Now, again, I'm not saying "Woo hoo, clones forever" or anything. I do think it's great to make totally original ideas, even ones that are weird and that may not attract anyone but the developer himself. All I'm trying to do is cut down some of the incessant insulting of developers, players, and basically everyone who doesn't hang out on this board that seems to happen in these threads.

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Original post by TheOddMan You develop your character by playing the game and learning how to perform skills yourself. For instance to become a better archer, YOU yourself need to take into account how gravity affects the arrow's flight, how far back you can pull the string before it snaps, how to quickly draw another arrow and so on.

Character development is the least disputable defining feature of the RPG genre. If you don't like character development, then you don't like RPGs. Human-player development exists in all games.

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Original post by Kest Character development is the least disputable defining feature of the RPG genre.

I'd argue that it's the only defining feature, common among all RPGs.

If you want to focus on yourself rather than a character, go do LARP or join the SCA. Seriously! It's massively fun if you really want to learn how to do anything from shooting a bow to making chainmail to cooking. It's a whole different kind of 'play', and you can meet some awesome people.

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Original post by makeshiftwings Quote: Original post by MSW Quote: Original post by makeshiftwings Most people like RPG's because they like medieval fantasy. Sure, some people like them just because of stat placement and slow-paced combat, and want to see that mechanic transfered into other settings, but they're the minority. In addition to being a minority, they're often a very bitter and hard-to-please minority with almost no agreement on what would make a "better" setting than the standards of medieval/future/postapocalyptic. Or conversely most hardcore fans of midevil fantasy RPGs agrue against more original settings out of the insecure fear that thier beloved genre may not need standard settings by which to define it. As I said in some other thread where you and I had almost the same argument, fantasy is going to be around a long time after all of us are dead. I don't have any fear about that. What I'm trying to do is give an explanation as to why retail companies make games in genres/settings that people like, rather than ones that nobody has asked for. It's not because all professional developers are uninspired and stupid, as so many people around here like to imply. It's because "originality" as this thread is using the term means "alienation" and "much smaller target audience" and "probably will fail without a massive marketing budget and a lot of luck". The second fallacy I see in here a lot is that not only are the developers stupid, but that the audience and players are stupid as well, or perhaps brainwashed, and that somehow it's the indie developer's job to force them to like something new. Some people go into bookstores and know they want mysteries or sci-fi. Some people go into movie rental places and know they want action or horror. If you try to tell someone "I'm making a movie genre that's like horror, but it's original. Instead of having things that scare you, it will have things that make you hungry!", 90% of them will have no interest. They know they like their genres, and they know enough about them to know that they can find originality in different forms within the genre itself. This is just a fact, no matter how much people may want to cover up their ears and ignore it. Now, again, I'm not saying "Woo hoo, clones forever" or anything. I do think it's great to make totally original ideas, even ones that are weird and that may not attract anyone but the developer himself. All I'm trying to do is cut down some of the incessant insulting of developers, players, and basically everyone who doesn't hang out on this board that seems to happen in these threads.

Yes, its just a fact that RPG developers, seeking to feed thier families, continualy draw inspiration from the same sources over and over again. Yes its a fact that some RPG players find comfort in the midevil fantsay setting and are lax to venture far from it. Yes its a fact the midevil fantasy genre will be around long after we are dead and buried.

We got that already, thanks for the reminder...but it wasn't needed. Wasn't even warrented this time, or the umpteen dozen other times threads like this are created. deep down we ALL know the various issues surrounding the dominace of the midevil fantasy setting in the RPG genre. Threads such as this are rallying cries for moveing the RPG genre in different directions, for what could and potentialy should be.

Like it or not RPG is a genre, a nebulious concept that evolves, grows and naturaly redefines itself. It can equaly be applied to GTA as it would Diablo, or any other game of merit. Don't like it? then purhapse we shoyuld invent a "new" genre instead for those of concern to guard...Else relax, play and develop your games, tomorrow is a new day...your beloved midevil fantasy setting will out live you with or without an RPG shell to cocoon itself within, and thats all that really matters.

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Original post by makeshiftwings 3) The game takes place in a stone age world that has just collided with France from 1742 due to a space time anomoly. Also, there are things that look like unicorns but they have axes on their head instead of horns, and they're evil! Plus, the world is full of demons based on obscure Babylonian references, and everyone in the main civilizations wear shoes for hats, and hats for shoes!

Hahahahahaha.

I'd play it.

MSW, is there some sort of history behind this argument with makeshiftwings regarding fantasy RPGs? I'm not sure what you have against the staples of the fantasy genre but you do seem to have a bit of a grudge against it.

There seems to be an opinion in this thread that "medieval fantasy" is the same as "unoriginal clone", and frankly I take exception to that. Just because a game has people wielding swords and casting spells does not mean it can't be original in many ways. In fact, one of the reason I am drawn to the fantasy setting is that it is freed from the restrictions of reality, allowing more scope to define the world in whatever way you want.

Now that doesn't mean all "medieval fantasy" games should be Tolkein-esque rip-offs, or the same damn Japanese RPG characters and plot-lines over and over again in every fricken title; I fully agree that there are some very uninspired elements in many mainstream RPGs. And I also would like to see a wider variety of settings for RPG games. But that doesn't mean there is no merit in setting your game world in a medieval fantasy setting.

I'm personally filled, to maximum capacity, with the medieval concept. I'm not referring to a gameplay type or any Tolkein themes. It is the invironment in which to play a role that I would like to experience a broader range of. I've had enough medieval to last me a lifetime.

(Edited) Eh, never mind.