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Original post by MSW Quote: Original post by makeshiftwings Most people like RPG's because they like medieval fantasy. Sure, some people like them just because of stat placement and slow-paced combat, and want to see that mechanic transfered into other settings, but they're the minority. In addition to being a minority, they're often a very bitter and hard-to-please minority with almost no agreement on what would make a "better" setting than the standards of medieval/future/postapocalyptic. Or conversely most hardcore fans of midevil fantasy RPGs agrue against more original settings out of the insecure fear that thier beloved genre may not need standard settings by which to define it.

lol

Indeed, what has happened to the original FPS/RTS/flight simulator/martial arts fighter/side scroller/tv show/movie/breathless exposé/autobiography/political thriller/scandalous romance novel/porno/website/person?

Copying is all around us. There must be a reason for its shocking prevalence, and not just in high-risk financial endeavors like multiple-hundred million dollar Hollywood films. It might prove illuminating to examine the phenomenon on a larger scale.

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Original post by makeshiftwings Because originality is overrated, and is often a bad idea from a sales-related viewpoint. Seriously, here are some "original" ideas for RPG's that I'm coming up with as I type them: 1) The main character is a giant green elephant, and the whole world is made out of cheese, and you cast spells by absorbing cheese into your magic elephant trunk and then shooting it out through a trans-dimensional hypercube! 2) The game is in Lithuania, in the year 1953, except the Navajo indians have invaded, because it's alternate history, and they invented laser guns and orbital defense platforms before Colombus came to the US (which is actually called Navajonia in this world). Also, there is a big secret, half of the Lithuanians are actually shapeshifters from an alternate dimension! 3) The game takes place in a stone age world that has just collided with France from 1742 due to a space time anomoly. Also, there are things that look like unicorns but they have axes on their head instead of horns, and they're evil! Plus, the world is full of demons based on obscure Babylonian references, and everyone in the main civilizations wear shoes for hats, and hats for shoes!

"Originality" doesn't have to mean "absurd". I like the Monty Pythons but it doesn't mean their sketches and movies are good RPG material.

I, for one, grew very tired of the typical fantasy CRPG. The only CRPGs I still find enjoyable lately are Fallout (1 & 2) and Planescape: Torment. All the other ones I've tried feel like a copy of a copy of a copy of Ultima meets LotR.

Give me a RPG set in 1980 England, where you get to play a cockney punk and beat the crap out of nazi skinheads, and where the goal isn't to save the universe or to get the girl. Obviously, there would be less emphasis on combat than in many CRPG (much like in Planescape: Torment), because of the lack of diversity in "monsters".

Or allow me to play a Netrunner in a Cyberpunk 2020-like setting, trapped in the cyberspace, and whose goal is to get out. Interact with data smugglers, SysOps, black (lethal) programs disguised as friendly helpers to lure you, etc. Your means of defense are programs that you find, buy, etc. Allow the player to chain them. Heck, you could even find out in the end that you're simply an inprint of a former human being (like Dixie in Neuromancer) and that you're replaying that scenario over and over again each time you're switched on.

Is the above original? Probably not. Is it more original than the average "high fantasy" CRPG? Probably. Sure, it isn't to everyone's taste, but I don't think many of us here have any hope of even reaching the mainstream.

I'm not sure exactly what level of "originality" you are looking for. Obviously there must be some common gameplay thread between RPG games otherwise it wouldn't be classified in that genre. For me, the cliche elements in pure RPGs are what makes them RPGs. There are a few good original examples of pure RPGs (such as Fallout) but more often than not the strong elements of originality come from what I'd more accurately classify as RPG hybrids - the tactical RPGs, the FPS/RPGs and so on.

Yes, there is a dominance of the fantasy medieval setting, but that is partly due to RPG history, partly to gameplay issues. Given their history RPGs are fairly solidly based around the fantasy "swords and sorcery" model, to the point where even the modern and sci-fi variants I've played follow a similar model (throwing in futuristic melee weapons or using psi powers instead of magic, for example). The melee/ranged/magic system is a pretty established balancing system for classes that designers know can work.

Plus there's the point that makeshiftwings made that being different just for the sake of being different will often end up alienating your audience. I think an element of familiarity is important to easily draw people into your game. Thus if you want to try a totally original gameplay dynamic it might be best to pick a standard fantasy medieval world to use elements that gamers intuitively understand. Conversely if you want to use a totally different world you might want to stick to tried-and-true gameplay elements. Furthermore, if you are wanting to focus on an deep and interesting original story then more standard RPG elements may be fine.

Originality in RPGs:

Final Fantasy 8
- Monsters don't drop gold, you get paid a salary.
- No magic points, magic needs to be drawn.
- Monsters level up as the characters do.
- Totally cool but way-too-complicated-for-some junction/refine system.
- Experience and levels have little effect on stats and HP.

Rings of Power ( old Genesis/Mega Drive RPG )
- Total freedom to explore and do what you want when you want.
- Absolutely no being led through the game - you really do have total freedom
- Pron cheat (I know nothing to do with the actual game, but I had to mention it...)

Wizardry
- Create a party, attempt the dungeon, party dies, create a new party, attempt the same dungeon that has now been affected by the original party's exploits!

Vampire The Masquerade: Redemption
- Vampire RPG
- Dungeon Master/Players online multiplayer system (better done in Neverwinter Nights, but you saw it here first!)

Ultima Underworld
- First Person 3D RPG

Deus Ex
- Freedom in how you do a level, rather than in exploration
- Based on conspiracy theories

Planescape: Torment
- Story-based RPG
- Character develops based on how you 'roleplay' your character via NPC interactions
- Absurd world
- Ultimate goal of the game is to die - genius!

I'm sure I've missed loads, but looking at this list there aren't any recent games that I can think of that had anything totally new. Of course you can always argue that these games aren't totally original - every FF game has a new system for magic/summoning; Deus Ex is an FPS; Torment uses the same engine as Baldur's Gate etc.

As I've said before, Nintendo has killed all gaming originality. But in all seriousness, RPGs have never been that original. They're supposed to have certain elements that make them RPGs. That's why most people play them, for the challenge and for what they expect from the game, not something new and unique. At least, that's my take on it.

I'm creating a complex and detailed sci-fi RPG that is based on the gameplay of an old-school sci-fi RPG. I want to create the same environment that I experienced in a way that lets other people experience it more intensely and with more detail.

I'm pretty sure that's what most of us here are trying to do. And that has nothing to do with money or marketing strategies. It's just love for gaming.

Creating a truly innovative game requires a huge number of iterations of four major steps. Imagining, designing, thinking, and balancing. It's usually relatively easy to imagine and design if you're creative. But balancing ideas into a simulation of a real world is a problem, and that's where thinking comes in. Usually a lot of it. And sometimes so much of it, you may introduce a fifth step. Giving up on the idea and moving on to think up something else.

Money making game companies create the majority of commercial quality games, and they don't have big enough bell bottoms to keep shelling money into innovative designers just to see step #5 so often. Being creative, as far as game development goes, does not earn you more money.

It will take a successful innovative game to generate an army of clones. And it will take a lot of blood, sweat, and tears to generate a successful innovative game.

How about this? An RPG that concentrates on ROLE playing not ROLL playing. There will be no stats, no die rolls, no random monsters. You develop your character by playing the game and learning how to perform skills yourself.

For instance to become a better archer, YOU yourself need to take into account how gravity affects the arrow's flight, how far back you can pull the string before it snaps, how to quickly draw another arrow and so on. You could even include a system where the player can carve his own bow shaft string it himself and so on. And do it all without showing any numbers AT ALL!

How's that for original?

When rpg's become overly original they become other genres. The fps, tactics games, and strategy games all often have huge rpg ties and elements.

Geneforge, anyone?