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Original post by Aiursrage2k You might use something like Resident Evil, where they have static cameras, depdending on where you are in the world.

I like that system, but I often find the controls to be too confusing in these circumstances. Like the character would run into walls, etc. Maybe thats jsut me being a tard :P

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Original post by Jiia It doesn't look right to me, but I'm looking for suggestions on how to fix it. I don't know if I should ditch it all, add the floor and walls, or add them but make all of it really small? I guess maybe my questions are becoming less related to this forum.

A nice sample of 'old school' approach to it would be here. (it's split screen so it looks bit odd)

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Original post by tolaris A nice sample of 'old school' approach to it would be here. (it's split screen so it looks bit odd)

The detail in that is incredible :D

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Original post by Jiia I think this will explain it:

I don't see any major problems here. You can't see the top of the wall that's been hidden. I think you should be drawing the end of the left wall, though.

You only need to hide walls if they're obscuring the ground or something that the player can interact with, so you don't need to hide the left wall.

If if you continue to show the left wall but not its top, then you should hide the top of the back wall as well?

Edit: There's a visual artifact caused by the skirting board, though. It looks like it's part of the floor, and the skirting on the left just looks like the 'ripped wallpaper' effect you have going on. So it looked to me like there was a rendering error in the corner. If the skirking was a different color, or (better) had its own polygons rather than being decalled on the wall, then you wouldn't get that effect.

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Original post by Jiia Quote: Original post by MSW WTF, why? why is haveing multple speeds important? You already said combat isn't real time...this isn't an action game...so why force players to both memorize and use an additional key to make their character run?...why not just find some set movement speed and stick with it? It's not that important. It's just really cool. I didn't say it's not an action game. It's extremely action-oriented. Real-time combat. Running presents an entirely new arsenal of combat attacks and maneuvers. I have to ask what you mean about memorizing a shift key, though. I don't follow. You obviously have something against running :P

More to the point, if somebody doesn't like having two speeds, guess what they can do? That's right: Only use one speed.

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Original post by Jiia Quote: Original post by Nathan Baum Most PC owners that I know don't have an analog controller, dual or otherwise. If it's going to work on a PC, it would seem to make a great deal of sense to be able to use the mouse for whatever you would use the camera stick. I'd certainly find it far more convenient than having to use the keyboard to control the camera. Like I said, using the mouse is not a problem. There's no restriction to what controls you can use.

Okay, that's fine then. A misunderstanding: I thought that when you said there would be no actions that required a mouse cursor, you were explaining why you weren't going to be using the mouse to control the camera.

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Original post by Jiia The detail in that is incredible :D

One thing that can be said about Studio-Ego, their artist(s) are mad... in the positive sense of the word. ^^

(another detail from the same game. note these are pretty much all 2d sprites... one thing the fixed camera allows them to get away with.)

tolaris: I already scanned all of the picture numbers as soon as you linked the one :P - Japanese patience is superhuman.

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Original post by Nathan Baum I don't see any major problems here. You can't see the top of the wall that's been hidden. I think you should be drawing the end of the left wall, though. You only need to hide walls if they're obscuring the ground or something that the player can interact with, so you don't need to hide the left wall. If if you continue to show the left wall but not its top, then you should hide the top of the back wall as well?

What I'm asking is why should I show the top of the walls if I don't show the side of them? And if I show the side of them, why do I not show the inside of the floor as well?

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Quote: It's not that important. It's just really cool. I didn't say it's not an action game. It's extremely action-oriented. Real-time combat. Running presents an entirely new arsenal of combat attacks and maneuvers. I have to ask what you mean about memorizing a shift key, though. I don't follow. You obviously have something against running :P More to the point, if somebody doesn't like having two speeds, guess what they can do? That's right: Only use one speed.

I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting? Using one speed would be like using only punches in a fighting game. You have kicks and a sword. But if you just want to slap people around, that's up to you. In any case, I don't understand what changes you believe I should make.

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Original post by Jiia Quote: Original post by Nathan Baum I don't see any major problems here. You can't see the top of the wall that's been hidden. I think you should be drawing the end of the left wall, though. You only need to hide walls if they're obscuring the ground or something that the player can interact with, so you don't need to hide the left wall. If if you continue to show the left wall but not its top, then you should hide the top of the back wall as well? What I'm asking is why should I show the top of the walls if I don't show the side of them? And if I show the side of them, why do I not show the inside of the floor as well?

I'm confused.

What's the "inside of the floor"? You mean you should show the floor as a box rather than a plane, so we'd see the side of the floor which faces the bottom wall in that picture? You could do that, but I wouldn't be bothered if it wasn't visible.

Additionally, what do you mean by the "side of the wall"? The side which is facing into the room? Because in that picture the top is always visible when you can see the side. If you're referring to the other two sides which are 'within' the wall, then that's what I meant by the 'end' of the wall. You should certainly show those sides if you're showing the top, I think.

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Quote: Quote: It's not that important. It's just really cool. I didn't say it's not an action game. It's extremely action-oriented. Real-time combat. Running presents an entirely new arsenal of combat attacks and maneuvers. I have to ask what you mean about memorizing a shift key, though. I don't follow. You obviously have something against running :P More to the point, if somebody doesn't like having two speeds, guess what they can do? That's right: Only use one speed. I'm not sure I understand what you're suggesting? Using one speed would be like using only punches in a fighting game. You have kicks and a sword. But if you just want to slap people around, that's up to you. In any case, I don't understand what changes you believe I should make.

I'm not suggesting you do anything. I'm suggesting that people who don't like to have two speeds in a game are quite welcome to use only one of the speeds, even if that might makes things harder or more boring for them.

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Original post by Nathan Baum Additionally, what do you mean by the "side of the wall"? The side which is facing into the room? Because in that picture the top is always visible when you can see the side. If you're referring to the other two sides which are 'within' the wall, then that's what I meant by the 'end' of the wall. You should certainly show those sides if you're showing the top, I think.

See, that's where I'm losing you then. First, by top or side or front, I'm referring to the inside of the wall or floor, which is realistically not visible. You're saying that I should certainly have the front (end) of the wall if I'm going to include the top. What I don't follow is why the floor is any different. If having the top of the wall makes it obvious that the front should be included, how is that any different than having the front of the wall make it obvious that the inside of the floor is needed as well? A bit difficult to put into words. Put simply, why should the floor be flat if the wall is thick? It seems to me like I need both or none at all.

I'm actually thinking about doing something similar to the game tolaris posted. Where the front walls are there, but just really short / cut in half. Just that it reminds me so much of The Sims :P

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I'm not suggesting you do anything. I'm suggesting that people who don't like to have two speeds in a game are quite welcome to use only one of the speeds, even if that might makes things harder or more boring for them.

I'm having trouble understanding what difference this makes with any of the subjects brought up. Running is a part of the game. It's no different than jumping. Would you bring up the fact that some players may prefer not to jump? If I understand you correctly, stating this fact not only makes zero sense, I can't imagine why anyone would mind pressing a jump button to jump. If I could add an option that made my game favorable to people who don't like to run or jump, I would do so, but it's not even a question to be considered.

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Original post by Jiia You're saying that I should certainly have the front (end) of the wall if I'm going to include the top. What I don't follow is why the floor is any different. If having the top of the wall makes it obvious that the front should be included, how is that any different than having the front of the wall make it obvious that the inside of the floor is needed as well? A bit difficult to put into words. Put simply, why should the floor be flat if the wall is thick? It seems to me like I need both or none at all.

If you can see the top and the side of the wall, then you should be able to see the front. If you could only see the side, then you wouldn't need to see either. As you say: it should either be flat or thick. But with only two surfaces visible, it's neither a plane nor a volume.

If the interiors can be more complex than this, having multiple rooms, and if the walls are thick, then obviously you should be able to see that the walls have thickness. Not only will it bring the image on the screen closer to the world you are trying to portray, but it could also have implications for gameplay: suppose you decide that the player should be able to shoot arrows through walls. Obviously they'll only go through thin paper/plaster walls, so you'd need to be able to see the difference visually.

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Quote: I'm not suggesting you do anything. I'm suggesting that people who don't like to have two speeds in a game are quite welcome to use only one of the speeds, even if that might makes things harder or more boring for them. I'm having trouble understanding what difference this makes with any of the subjects brought up. Running is a part of the game. It's no different than jumping. Would you bring up the fact that some players may prefer not to jump? If I understand you correctly, stating this fact not only makes zero sense, I can't imagine why anyone would mind pressing a jump button to jump. If I could add an option that made my game favorable to people who don't like to run or jump, I would do so, but it's not even a question to be considered.

You're getting all riled up about nothing.

I'm not the one who doesn't like having multiple speeds: MSW is. And MSW is the one who is welcome to use only one speed if multiple speeds offend him so much, even if that might makes things harder or more boring.

You don't have to do anything because if MSW chooses to be offended by his character having multiple speeds that's his own problem, and if the game isn't favorable to him, that's also his problem.

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Original post by Nathan Baum If you can see the top and the side of the wall, then you should be able to see the front. If you could only see the side, then you wouldn't need to see either. As you say: it should either be flat or thick. But with only two surfaces visible, it's neither a plane nor a volume. If the interiors can be more complex than this, having multiple rooms, and if the walls are thick, then obviously you should be able to see that the walls have thickness. Not only will it bring the image on the screen closer to the world you are trying to portray, but it could also have implications for gameplay: suppose you decide that the player should be able to shoot arrows through walls. Obviously they'll only go through thin paper/plaster walls, so you'd need to be able to see the difference visually.

Opinions like this are exactly the reason I posted. Much appreciated. I'm going to try several different console-RPG type methods, then I'll compare them in more complex shaped rooms. I'll post the results if anyone is interested.

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You're getting all riled up about nothing. I'm not the one who doesn't like having multiple speeds: MSW is. And MSW is the one who is welcome to use only one speed if multiple speeds offend him so much, even if that might makes things harder or more boring. You don't have to do anything because if MSW chooses to be offended by his character having multiple speeds that's his own problem, and if the game isn't favorable to him, that's also his problem.

Not getting riled up, just frustrated that I couldn't figure out what you guys were upset about. I'm already aiming at a smaller player audience by combining the RPG and combat/fighting themes, the last thing I want to do is split that group in half as well.

Thanks again [smile]