Some interesting points made by people. I've never really considered this topic on game media before.

Hypothetically if a game came out that featured an abundance of minority-race characters (in lead roles or all roles) it might seem slightly odd, because it doesn't really happen. It could seem a little blatent and "in-your-face". You might even think that they were doing it to be politically correct, which could be true. To the effect of being distracting? At least taking some time for adjusting to.

Obviously it would depend on how they went about it, and maybe in the future there would be examples. There's probably been times like this in say, advertising, where a load of commercials used minorities to market their product (I'm not talking about portraying them in a stereotypical way tho).

It's alot easier to choose a caucasian as the lead for your product because previous games barrage players with these images. Most people wouldn't give a second thought to a caucasian character. So you could say the caucasian character in games is like a standard template where they then apply a backstory to.

(Would have posted earlier, but I've been doing overtime nightshift for the past six days and it kinda makes me want to sleep all my free time away :))

Deus Ex (and ninety percent of all fighting games) probably had the simplest and most effective solution: Let the player choose. They are, after all, incarnated in the character onscreen, and should be able to decide at least how that creature will look and react.

ld

I myself couldn't care less what race I'm playing.
Thats the least important aspect of a game.
As long as you enjoy the game, whats the difference?
I can't possibly understand why race would be an issue when selecting your character, nor when *buying* a game.
If I where to have an opinion like that, my collection of PS2 games would suddenly shrink with a good 50%.
Missing a good game because of the main character's race/colour is waaaaay beyond me...

mrwb: I think most people would agree with you there.

Quote:

Original post by EzekielKnight Hypothetically if a game came out that featured an abundance of minority-race characters (in lead roles or all roles) it might seem slightly odd, because it doesn't really happen.

Sure it does... in areas where the "minority" is the local majority. Segregation may not be law anymore, but it still happens.

Quote:

It could seem a little blatent and "in-your-face". You might even think that they were doing it to be politically correct, which could be true.

Nah, political correctness only mandates one non-white character, one or two women, and if you're really politically correct, one gay character (either sex). ;)


On the original example, I think those reactions are unfortunate, to put it politely. As someone with vague intentions of doing some indie game development, someday, it makes me want to make sure I make non-white protagonists, and/or white protagonists in a predominantly non-white setting. ;P

This game is inspired by 90s gangsta movies and gangsta rap in the same way Vice City was inspired by 80s cop shows and gangster movies. I think it would be pretty wrong to make the lead character in a game inspired by black music and films white, even if it gave the white kids in the suburbs a more relatable character that they can live out their Eminem fantasies with.

One thing that I find interesting about the game is, from what I've read, the character you play is a good kid that has no other choice than to go bad. In the other games the main characters have been complete assholes only concerned with their own personal power and wealth. So while people are saying he's the stereotypical black gangster there is potential that they're doing something at least a little different.

Quote:

EricTrickster Until the industry itself starts producing more games with minority characters as the main focus and away from the stereotypes (blacks and hispanics as criminals, asians as kung-fu masters) we can keep expecting the kind of backlash GTA:SA is experiencing.

Often they don't even include minorities as stereotypes. You end up with weird situations like Max Payne taking place in New York but everyone being white (MP2 had one black character that died in the beginning.)

As to not wanting to play the game because the character is black, sure it's ridiculous, but there are a lot of racist people out there. I doubt the gameplay will drastically change because of the main character's race. If you liked the other GTA games, deciding that you don't want to play the new one because the main character is black is very suspect.

Wow, the fact that this is even a topic shows you how much this country is whitewashed. It's quite peculiar that people who play videogames regularly cant "get into a black character", yet they immerse themselves in any other character without regard.

So, it seems to me that it all boils down to an inability to see something as contextually believable due to racist attitudes. Sure, playing with an elf or a moose is contextually believable because it's a fantasy world. Elves, wolves, and other animals can be personified, given sympathetic attributes, and given character flaws, and it's all right. It's fantasy. But if you have a black character, an all black cast, or, GOD FORBID, a black hero *gasp* it's no longer believable at all. Why?

It's because they won't allow themselves to believe that there are any good qualities to black people. Their racism takes hold and they forget it's just a fantasy world. It tells them, "Hey, black people cant be heros! They arent smart! They cant solve those puzzles! Why is he talking in standard English?! They cant be trusted like that! Ha, a black person being sympathetic? NO WAY!" If you grow up with the perception that all good characteristics are "white", and all other, negative characteristics are attributed to other people, the next logical step is just to wonder why the character isnt actually white in the first place. (which is why I find the terms "token"[some uses] and "oreo" extremely offensive. It's like saying "Wow, you're pretty intelligent/nice/well spoken! You're not acting like you should!)

And yet, if a character were to meet all of the criteria on the stereotype list-o-bullshit, he'd finally be believable to them, but they wouldnt want to play it...cause who wants to play a character with no redeeming qualities at all? It's a damned if you do, damned if you dont type of situation.

The ignorance of a few posters in this thread makes me want to "laughcry" :( x 20

Quote:

Original post by Domini I've played as white people, asians, blacks, and women in games and I never thought anything of [it].

Same here. I cant believe this is even an issue.

Quote:

Original post by KevinG Wow, the fact that this is even a topic shows you how much this country is whitewashed. It's quite peculiar that people who play videogames regularly cant "get into a black character", yet they immerse themselves in any other character without regard.

I'd urge you not to generalize from one poster's statements. As a person who's been interested in racial representation in media ever since I got sick of sci-fi horror movies not being over until all the black people died (70s - 80s), this thread makes me a bit more optimistic. I remember seeing its evil twin on Prodigy back in the early 90s, and from what I see here people's attitudes have really shifted.

Now, for those who feel like they can identify only with a moose / elf (strongly suspect that was flaimbait, btw):

Quote:

So, it seems to me that it all boils down to an inability to see something as contextually believable due to racist attitudes. Sure, playing with an elf or a moose is contextually believable because it's a fantasy world. Elves, wolves, and other animals can be personified, given sympathetic attributes, and given character flaws, and it's all right. It's fantasy. But if you have a black character, an all black cast, or, GOD FORBID, a black hero *gasp* it's no longer believable at all. Why? It's because they won't allow themselves to believe that there are any good qualities to black people. Their racism takes hold and they forget it's just a fantasy world. It tells them, "Hey, black people cant be heros! They arent smart! They cant solve those puzzles! Why is he talking in standard English?! They cant be trusted like that! Ha, a black person being sympathetic? NO WAY!" If you grow up with the perception that all good characteristics are "white", and all other, negative characteristics are attributed to other people, the next logical step is just to wonder why the character isnt actually white in the first place.

I agree with you here. Ask people to draw a hero. Isn't it odd that cultural assimilation is so strong that many people will draw a caucasian person. I even see this in Japanese Anime and games, where many of heroes are NOT Japanese in appearance (stylization aside, for those that look closer to real life, a huge number are suspiciously caucasian only, which is odd coming from a Japanese culture rich in history and myth).

Quote:

And yet, if a character were to meet all of the criteria on the stereotype list-o-bullshit, he'd finally be believable to them, but they wouldnt want to play it...cause who wants to play a character with no redeeming qualities at all? It's a damned if you do, damned if you dont type of situation.

I see this as an opportunity for game creators who care about diversity to simply represent. Sid Meier has done so in his Civilization and Alpha Centauri games (I love playing Morgan). Many FPS games let you customize both the race and gender of your character.

As for story games, for those still stuck with what I call the "Seinfeld Effect" I always say vote with your dollar and if you're a game maker, don't wait for people to change, change things yourself.

Quote:

It's because they won't allow themselves to believe that there are any good qualities to black people. Their racism takes hold and they forget it's just a fantasy world. It tells them, "Hey, black people cant be heros! They arent smart! They cant solve those puzzles! Why is he talking in standard English?! They cant be trusted like that! Ha, a black person being sympathetic? NO WAY!"

I'm going to go out on a limb, and say: I don't think it's quite that bad. Well, maybe it's worse, depending on how you look at it... anyhow, my theory: It's not so much that these people think that black people are incapable, untrustworthy, etc. It's that they think black people are fundamentally different, in a way that means they couldn't possibly identify with you. I'm not saying they're not thinking "different and inferior," some of 'em. But I really do think it's mostly about sheer alienation, rather than assumptions about exactly how you might be "different."

I remember the first time I (knowingly) met a gay couple. My 4-H leader had arranged a tour of their stables, so these two guys show us around, we see the horses -- Morgans, I think. On the drive back, the leader says something to the affect of "hey, they're gay, didja realize that?" (Another instance of someone feeling compelled to point out a minority status, I think) And of course I hadn't realized that... and by my internal reaction, you'd think I'd met Aliens from Outer Space. But they seemed so normal! I thought. Like people, you know?

Somewhat different circumstances, I admit. But I honestly think that this kind of unconsidered racism (as opposed to genuine ideological racism) is driven by a similar feeling -- not of superiority, per se, but of underlying fundamental difference. So the particular manifestation here isn't "a black person couldn't be a hero" so much as, "I couldn't be a black person, so playing one is too weird."

Like I said, I'm not sure that's any better,. On the bright side, I suspect that simply getting to know some people in the category they "can't identify with" would solve the problem for most people. Familiarity leads to humanity, in my experience. Heck, maybe even this game will help some of 'em. *rolls eyes*