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Original post by infrmtn I've always believed that, in general, whites are more intelligent than blacks and that blacks are physically stronger than whites. Is it true? Who knows. Of course you wouldn't see an unbiased answer on television, but that's quite obvious. There's always one side and then the other.

You have a poverty of consciousness and conscience that I do not envy. Your atavistic world view sounds like one of desperate value judgements and human beings scrabbling over the backs of each other. No wonder you'd rather play made up creatures and animals. I wouldn't want to live in that kind of cruel world either.

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As far as I know, the list of mankind's greatest minds doesn't include all that many blacks, but maybe I'm just ignoring the facts and missing most of the black geniuses.

Your contention could easily be turned aside with a bit of research on characters like Mansa Musa, the Charlemagne of Africa, or by looking up black American inventors using google-- but you strike me as an intellectually lazy individual given to commiting the logical fallacy of gross generalization, otherwise you would have long ago error checked your beliefs-- so that can't be your aim. What is interesting, nonetheless, is to note your likely metric for so-called "greatness:" Conquest and science if one is a typical Eurocentric bigot. What is even more interesting is to note what such a metric ignores, in terms of global catastrophe, genocide, scientific atrocities, degradation of human values and war.

I think games can actually help in this arena. Once, it was difficult for whites to see blacks on television. That barrier was broken. Now we have games giving them an opportunity to identify with blacks by stepping into their shoes. The next step is to present positivist views on what it is to be black. In my game my objective is to present men and women in so many different positions of leadership that this sort of thing becomes natural. Hero becomes as likely to be black as white as brown as yellow as whatever, as does villian. It'll be one small way of breaking a negative cycle of media which some have swallowed hook, line and sinker.

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So there's racial mixing.

Viva la futura! [smile]

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It's true that you see more and more "white blacks" in, for example, America. They look totally different from the ones in genuine black countries. I think it's a shame people need to go and advocate others to mix races that have been evolving separately for so long. You take a good man from one race and a good woman from another, and you end up with an average kid with something from both worlds. You might get "golden" skin and whatever, but it's just not the same. I'd take pride in knowing that I'm 100 % Asian or Nordic or whatever instead of a mixed bag. But that's just me.

Good luck on the genetic analysis of your own purity. Unless you're Icelandic or some other such rarety, you've got alot of "impure" DNA in you.

In the game I'm building humans are so mixed petty differences such as you describe are as alien as tribal allegiances in Sumeria are to us now.

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People should be able to feel proud of their heritage, much like they should be proud of their nationality.

Pride is great. Bigotry, of which your post and personal philosophy stinks of, is just pathetic.

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About games... You tend to see a lot of white (and Asian) professional game developers, but I personally haven't seen all that many blacks.

Here's another hint that you're trolling: You claimed that there weren't that many blacks in swastikaland or whatever country it is that you claim to hail from. So why would you?

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I don't know why that is or if it will change, but I'd be surprised if it did.

Prepare to be surprised. My next to last producer was black and Korean (had very cool eyes), the company sales VP for the internet games startup I worked at was black, the QA lead at the company before that was black, and that doesn't count the people from India, hispanics and other groups I've worked with... oh, yeah, and I'm black and white with a dash of this and that and have had 5 years of game industry experience.

Now, of course, the majority of people in the industry were not black, but then again, the way I see it, for a group that's only had its civil rights for a little over 40 years, all I see is steadily rising progress.

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It depends on the culture you were raised in.

I fear for the children of your culture. Such a people who can only judge a book by its cover will have minds forever closed to a universe of wonder.

I agree with Wavinator entirely..

Why should race make any difference in a game or in any other aspect of society!?!?

I'm sure most people don't have any problems playing games like Dynasty warriors, Otogi, Romance of the three kindoms, Onimusha etc etc.. All these games (lthough developed by japanese companies) all have japanese main characters so what exactly it the difference between playing a game with a japanese main character and playing a game with a african-american main character?!?!?

In fact what is the difference between that and playnig a game where the main character is a three-eyed, green-skinned alien named blooob!?!?!

They way i see it, its a game!!!!
It doesn't really matter what the creed or the colour of a character in a game is.. if the game has all the elements that makes video games of that genre successful then the game will be good regardless..

If anyone has 'a problem' playing a game with a character that holds a different locality of origin to themselves them i fail to see how a person like that can survive living in a world so diverse with different races and different types of people..
That type of person must also have 'a problem' working with, talking to, living with, playing with, communicating to or just being around other types of people.. in that case then you life must be (unnessesarily) EXTREMELY difficult..

By all means i believe in being proud to be who you are.. but at the end of the day i think that pride shouldn't include prejudice under any circumstance..

Besides a personality (which is a combination of aspects of your parents personalities and your own individual characteristics developed through the courrse of your life..),

A level of intelligence (which under no circumstances has any link what so ever to your ethnic origin..),

A physical appearance (skin colour, facial features, hair type and colour, body structure etc..),

What exactly is the difference between one person and another!?!?!

If you feel that you have the answer to this question then i'd love to hear it!!

At the end of the day, the colour of a persons skin holds no bearing what-so-ever to the type of person you are.. even certain characteristic trends in races can be overided by ANY individual (most people believe that black people are naturally good at sports.. I know many friends and family that are not athletic in the slightest no matter how hard they tried to be..)
If a person is intelligent then that is down to the person and nothing more in my view.. Since intelligence, fitness and all other skills are things that most be developed through the course of a persons life (you could have the highest IQ in the world but if you never go to school then what will you achieve!?!?), who you are is determined by what you do in terms of development as a person and not what you look like..

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Original post by ArchangelMorph games like Dynasty warriors

I'm sure since DW is based on Chinese history, the characters are chinese

but seriously , people take games too seriously, its a textured mesh, NOT A real person, just pixels. your going to miss a seemingly great game for a stupid reason

Wavinator, you're way off. That's just useless name-calling through the entire post. I don't feel I owe something to blacks because some whites enslaved them somewhere in the distant past.
You appear to be a non-white American, so I don't think it's too far off to say you can't relate to a Nordic man. America is a mix of cultures while we're more focused. But why is it that feeling superior to someone else is bad? Why should the strong hold back to let the weak catch up? Nature is all about the survival of the fittest, not the survival of everyone. I don't fear for the children of my culture, I fear for all of mankind. Where will we be in the future if we defy natural selection by keeping the weak alive by artificial means?

If you're smart, you'll understand that I'm not just talking about races here. On the other hand, this misses the topic of the thread, so you might want to stop picking at my posts line by line if possible. I'm done with this topic unless there is something more on your mind.

Let me ask you this: Would people have trouble playing as an average Jew-bashing skinhead? Should they be blamed if they aren't interested? Or is it OK to kill in games only as long as it's not concentrated on a certain group by a certain group?

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Original post by Anonymous Poster Quote: Original post by ArchangelMorph games like Dynasty warriors I'm sure since DW is based on Chinese history, the characters are chinese

Chinese, yes. My favorite character is Wei Yan, btw. The combination Double Volge dancing and clipped one liners like "Officer..... DEEEEEEEE-FEAT!" have me cracking up.

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but seriously , people take games too seriously, its a textured mesh, NOT A real person, just pixels. your going to miss a seemingly great game for a stupid reason

Agreed!

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Original post by infrmtn Wavinator, you're way off. That's just useless name-calling through the entire post.

Tip of the hat to you, sir, that's an impressive defense mechanism. However, the points still stand.

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I don't feel I owe something to blacks because some whites enslaved them somewhere in the distant past.

I'm glad we have something on which we can agree.

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You appear to be a non-white American,

Uh... lemme check... yup, looks that way to me...

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so I don't think it's too far off to say you can't relate to a Nordic man.

Oh, you're right, I can't relate to the former QA senior tech that was once my boss but is now one of my closest friends, to whose child I am a godfather, and at whose home I spend every Christmas. She's Danish, her husband's a mix of German and Cherokee... what was I thinking, I'd better go isolate myself into my own tiny, fearful universe and start relating to elven mooses. It's much safer!

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But why is it that feeling superior to someone else is bad? Why should the strong hold back to let the weak catch up?

Gee, I dunno, why is war all that bad, why is torture all that bad, why is holding the paranoid values of a self-centered xenophobe all that bad? I guess it all depends on one's meaning of life.

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Nature is all about the survival of the fittest, not the survival of everyone.

Thank God for cities, pottable water, vaccines and low-carb organic alternatives.

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I don't fear for the children of my culture, I fear for all of mankind. Where will we be in the future if we defy natural selection by keeping the weak alive by artificial means?

Exactly where we are after the last paranoid got those jitters, lead his country to war and was slapped down by the collective sanity of the human race. Just fine and dandy, given that there will forever be more of us than there are of them.

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I'm done with this topic unless there is something more on your mind.

Adios! Don't let the Mein Kampf hit you in the head on the way out...

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Original post by ArchangelMorph I'm sure most people don't have any problems playing games like Dynasty warriors, Otogi, Romance of the three kindoms, Onimusha etc etc..

One of my favorite FPS games is Half-Life, and I have no problem not looking like Gordon. When the troops scream out "Freeman!" I still reflexively duck. [smile]

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In fact what is the difference between that and playnig a game where the main character is a three-eyed, green-skinned alien named blooob!?!?!

I'm seriously working on that last one myself. As long as you have enough clues how to play and lots of nifty special powers, I don't see that big of a problem.

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Original post by infrmtn But why is it that feeling superior to someone else is bad? Why should the strong hold back to let the weak catch up? Nature is all about the survival of the fittest, not the survival of everyone.

So what are you saying?

That black people are somehow inferior to you??
Are somehow weaker than you?

Wow! Now thats just the best thing i've ever heard if that!! Tell me, how old ARE you!?!?

Also let me tell you something mate, the natural world may be all about survival of the fittest, but human beings stopped living by those rules about a million years ago when we grew brains and human compassion (slight exaggeration but true none-the-less..) You'd do well to remember that..

Oh! and on a much more personal note..
i'm sure i know a LOT of black men who are stonger than you..
(me included..)

I have a question about the design and story of GTA:SA, and I hope I can get some intellectually honest answers. Since all the characters in the past have been un-redeemable, self-centered jerks, why then, when changing to a black main character, do we now have a good-kid-forced-to-be-bad character? Why not keep it thematically consistent with the past games? Was this just a design choice, or choice based on politically correct necessity? RockStar never shied away from controversy in the past, and I am disappointed in them now, because I truly believe that they did not want the accusations of racism against them by portraying the black gangster as a nothing more than a thug. It’s ok to portray the mafia characters as nothing more than self-centered anti-hero thugs, so why make the change now?
I just feel, that if we have true equality, we should be able to have a game about being a criminal, where a white character is nothing more than a criminal, and so is the black character. Maybe I’m completely wrong here, and the choice to make the main character a tragedy of circumstance was the intention for a change in atmosphere all along, but looking at the past GTA games, I just really doubt it. Half the fun of the GTA games was the total abandonment with which your character conducted heinous crimes. Can you still have that when you’re told to believe that the main character does not want to be the way he is?

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Original post by DrewCaliburClark Since all the characters in the past have been un-redeemable, self-centered jerks,

Not nessesarily true.. the main character in GTA 3 was pracitically none existent in terms of personality.. he didn't even have a character and didn't even talk throughout the whole game.. Also in GTA games before that the character has always been little more than a figure that the player would control to manipulate the world around it..

I do see your point though..
I think it shouldn't be double standards and i wouldn't see any problems playing with an all out bad ass gangsta mo'fo' (sorry i'm getting carried away..)

Maybe after the developers had to give a formal apology to the country of Haiti after the people of Haiti were a bit miffed about the way they were portrayed in the last game, they just don't want that kind of hassle again and are trying to cover there own backs.. i dunno.. it does kinda suck tho..

I think GTA has made its mark as being one of those game where you as the player could basically do whatever you want without morale consequence.. now they've kinda spoiled that aspect of it..

But it is only a game so it will still probably be great fun to play at the end of the day.. well.. hopefully..