Quote:

Original post by Domini As a 23 year old black guy I must say that infrmtn post is the most insulting thing I've ever read.

I second that!!

What if the main character was an Eminem type, nothing would change except the skin color...still a thug, still rappin, etc..

Oh wait something else would change...we wouldn't be debating the issue.

D

Quote:

Original post by infrmtn I personally wouldn't play a black character in a game if I had the option to choose my race. I'm not black and so it would be hard to get into it. I can be an elf or a moose, but I simply don't want to play as a black gang member, since I feel their world is inferior to mine in a negative way. I think they talk in a very stupid way and listen to mentally unchallenging music, so they're not very high on my imaginary list of interesting people. Games like these are about being someone you're not, and usually that someone has something you can't have or can do something you can't. It would most likely be a character the player respects or secretly admires in some way. But then, people like different things. Some white girls might date black guys just so people wouldn't think they're racist in some way. Then you've got Token in South Park. I don't know why the devs picked this setting for their next game, but I hope there was a valid reason. I also hope they consider the fact that there are certain differences in certain attributes between certain races and that those differences should be recognized and not just swept under the carpet. Still, you most likely have your average skinny white male writing the dialogue and a similar male coding the engine, so most likely only the positive things are included and the negative side is left out. I don't mind them making games like that, but this particular subject doesn't interest me at all and so I would not play the game.

Tsk tsk. I'm not white is it hard to get into a game for me? No. I guess judging from that post, for you it will be hard to get into anything. It's not hard to get into being en Elf or moose? You think you are a moos or elf sometimes maybe. They're world is inferior how? I can say your world is inferior. Living the way you do, doing the things you do, even if you were forced into that world I will feel that you are inferior. Unless you're exactly like me you are inferior. Where do I happen to remember that from? But some white girls like black guys because they like him, i think the majoirty like them not because of that stupid reason, because they're not stupid. Token in South Park is obviouslyk named Token for a reason.

The devs pick this setting because they want to. How about I say that I feel that people in the Mafia are inferior to me. How about I say why would they pick the setting of that type?

But people are entitled to their opinion. Just like devs are entitled to their opinoin, you don't know why well you don't need to know. It's their game. They create, they know that not everyone is stupid. And there are such things as a black writed and a black programmer just in case you don't know.

I do agree that if it were somenoe like Eminem that you or anyone else won't be arguing. Even if it was the same settings.

When the characters are white people don't complain, when the characters are black you get this stuff.

____________
I personally don't care what race the character is. As long as I enjoy the game. There are plenty of things that I didn't like the concept of I tried it and I ened up liking it. For once I'm actually looking forward to a GTA game. Not because of the settings. Because I felt that Vice City wasn't an improvement of the previouis game, I feel that thsi one will, because of the gameplay.

i believe it's a good change. it's usually an anti-hero type leading these games and i don't see why this is any different. i doubt those of you who are complaining about the game's leading player being black have read the backgroud story to the game.

now for responses:

@necromage - how can being part of a mafia be any better than joining a gang? the only major difference is that it's an organized crime group that's full of italians (and in some other cases russians) if Gang is the Base Class, then Mafia is its derived class. therefore, mafia are gangs, period.

@infrmtn - how you can associate with an elf or moose but not with another human being? when was the last time you were an elf or moose anyway? being a gang member might not an attractive way of life for you. hell it's not for me either. but to say that they are inferior to you, then say you can relate easier to a forest mammal is not exactly showing your superiority or even proving your point. gang members have a different way of talking and you don't like it. no problem. but because you are incapable of understanding a simple dialect (whether it's content or context) is a problem you may want to fix.

@forum - i hope this isn't the token black wanna-be gangsta. that would be sad and i would definitely not buy or promote the game. but from the storyline it seems that it won't be. also i'm pretty sure they'll have different station to accompany everyone's musical tastes. i don't believe that they are gonna have a radical from a formula that's worked so far. just a change of venue and skin color [smile]. nothing more, nothing less.

i believe it's a good change. it's usually an anti-hero type leading these games and i don't see why this is any different. i doubt those of you who are complaining about the game's leading player being black have read the backgroud story to the game.

now for responses:

@necromage - how can being part of a mafia be any better than joining a gang? the only major difference is that it's an organized crime group that's full of italians (and in some other cases russians) if Gang is the Base Class, then Mafia is its derived class. therefore, mafia are gangs, period.

@infrmtn - how you can associate with an elf or moose but not with another human being? when was the last time you were an elf or moose anyway? being a gang member might not an attractive way of life for you. hell it's not for me either. but to say that they are inferior to you, then say you can relate easier to a forest mammal is not exactly showing your superiority or even proving your point. gang members have a different way of talking and you don't like it. no problem. but because you are incapable of understanding a simple dialect (whether it's content or context) is a problem you may want to fix.

@forum - i hope this isn't the token black wanna-be gangsta. that would be sad and i would definitely not buy or promote the game. but from the storyline it seems that it won't be. also i'm pretty sure they'll have different station to accompany everyone's musical tastes. i don't believe that they are gonna have a radical from a formula that's worked so far. just a change of venue and skin color [smile]. nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:

Original post by infrmtn I personally wouldn't play a black character in a game if I had the option to choose my race. I'm not black and so it would be hard to get into it. I can be an elf or a moose

Though this smells of flamebait, you sound like to me a person who timidly embraces otherness until it's right on your doorstep. Like the sci-fi fans who yearn to meet aliens but cling to homogenous, monocultural neighborhoods. It's a pretty funny contradiction. Btw, do your elves include Drow Elves?

Quote:

Games like these are about being someone you're not, and usually that someone has something you can't have or can do something you can't.

Yeah, like kill people and steal their cars... Oh, wait...

Quote:

It would most likely be a character the player respects or secretly admires in some way.

Apparently by album sales, alot of people admire the underworld culture of modern gansters. This goes all the way back to anti-hero worship in the days of Bonnie and Clyde.

Quote:

I also hope they consider the fact that there are certain differences in certain attributes between certain races and that those differences should be recognized and not just swept under the carpet.

??? What, suntan oil as a powerup????

Quote:

I don't mind them making games like that, but this particular subject doesn't interest me at all and so I would not play the game.

Vote with your dollar, that's what I say.

Quote:

Original post by darrylsh Oh wait something else would change...we wouldn't be debating the issue. D

Aye. From time to time an issue like this just jinks your perspective, and you see how pervasive dominant perspectives are in our society.

The great thing about games, though, is that by dropping you into the shoes of someone else, you can get a much wider view (in theory, anyway).

Suntan oil as a powerup... classic :o)
Perhaps also plastic surgery and breast implants? The larger the boobs, the faster you can do forward flips?
Any more bright ideas for the politically incorrect game of the week?
maximum_weight_of_melee_weapon = avatar.strength * avatar.skill(melee) * (1 + 7 * avatar.is_a_small_asian_anime_with_no_muscles());

I'll give this another spin and see what you think.

I'm a 35yr old black male who has played video games on consoles and computers since the original Pong system came out in the 70s. I read the original post and the comments that followed and, like others, found myself offended - both at the idea of a main character in the next GTA being a black male gangbanger, and that some people would be put off playing the character simply because he's black.

Then I sat back and thought more on it, and I came to the person opinion that were I in their shoes I might be uncomfortable too.

Take a minute and consider this: as minorities in this country we've been taught, whether subliminaly or overtly, that we need to acclimate ourselves to the prevailing culture and effectively ignore, or accept, cultural differences. We're, on the whole, surprisingly more tolerant (in certain ways) of these differences.

I had this conversation with a few co-workers, black and hispanic males all ranging from mid-20s to mid-30s, and we all came to the same result - we could not readily identify a single main character in a video game that was NOT sports related that was black. None. Oh, certainly there were supporting characters galore - but in an action/rpg format we could not come up with a single black main character.

We never thought about it because we simply didn't care. We didn't need to learn to relate to the character because we've grown up with the concept that the main character in a movie, a tv show, and in a video game, is 90% likely to a caucasian male. We joke about what we, as blacks and hispanics, might do differently in the situations presented - but we still enjoy the media before us.

Now flip the script and realize that non-minority gamers in this country have not had to deal with this, not in a mainstream game. To some of them this is an affront to their sensibilities, and they probably can't even explain why that is. I wouldn't call them rascist or bigoted, despite the words that might come spilling out of their mouths, but the fact is this is something radically different from what they've dealt with before.

Movies and television have brought us many mainstream minority action stars and society is at a point where this is considered normal. Interracial relationships are all over the screen and tube, and we all accept it because it feels normal. It's acceptable.

But go through your video game collection and see how many you can find with black characters as the focus. Why is it that the gaming industry has just now come to that level?

Putting it in that light, I can't fault people for complaining. Until the industry itself starts producing more games with minority characters as the main focus and away from the stereotypes (blacks and hispanics as criminals, asians as kung-fu masters) we can keep expecting the kind of backlash GTA:SA is experiencing.

IMO.

Good points, Mr. Trickster.

Which leads me to ask...how many black people are in the game industry? Namely in the higher positions, like Lead Designers, Producers, and Lead Artists.

If there are few, then we might have the beginnings of an explanation. And white guys making games with white characters isn't racist, it's just what they know and what first comes to mind. (of course it *could* be racist in some rare scenarios...but...I kinda doubt it). But if black guys (ahem..women too) are more commonly in the industry in high level positions, then...what's going on? Maybe they themselves think mainstream and stereotypes sell better. Or maybe they're all working on the basketball games. :)

EDIT ... An observation/question. I shouldn't limit this to white people, as obviously the asians have a lot of influence as well. Which is why I have to ask...why did Shigeru Miyamoto make Mario a chubby white Italian guy? It's not like he had an important storyline to follow.

Assuming this game just will be about petty crime is JUST WRONG!

GTA SA takes you a new prespective. you don't play tony any more, he is now your boss and you gotta do missions for him.