Kars, you''re a genius. That''s the single best Matrix-related idea I''ve ever heard. You could have all kinds of fun with designing the Matrix and maintaining it. If you were someone similar to the Architect, but with a damge-control function, you could be the guy on the other end of the Agents'' earpieces. And the Simcity "instant construction" phenomenon would be justified, as well.

Remember the part of the Animatrix about the "haunted house", with the team of Matrix programs coming at the end to "fix the glitch"? You could have that sort of thing happen like tornadoes or fires in Simcity, and have to fix them in a timely way.

There could be a "reality" meter, and whenever something weird happened, the residents of the Matrix would become more suspicious and have a higher rate of "escape" or whatever they call it when a power cell gets out and comes back as a badass kung-fu warrior. Also, you''d have to maintain a high population, to keep power outputs up.

You could sent agents to catch Zioners who get in and later in the game even have a "One" arise and start running amok. Really, there''s no need to destroy the Matrix when The One shows up, you could just have a series of fights and then when Zion explodes in the real world everything goes back to normal on the inside. Heck, if things got twitchy, you might even welcome The One, because his arrival heralds the destruction of Zion and a drastic reduction in "escapes".

Sweet idea. I like it very, very much. You might even want to start a new thread to talk about it.

Good idea with the simcity like Matrix game...prolly the only worthwhile idea in the whole mess that is the Matrix (IMHO)

Actually Kars with a few changes that idea would be even better if basied on Dark City...a film that people sorta forget about that came out a full year before the Matrix with practicaly the same story....or even base it on the old anime OVA series Megazone 23, which again had a simular story...Or even base it on the works of Science-fiction arthur Philip K Dick who was able to condense the entire Matrix idea down into a short story titled the Electric Ant way back in the 1960s...There is nothing even remotely new about the Matrix (just like there wasn''t anything new about Star Wars) but people either don''t know this or get so hung up on the details that they overlook everything (course they get so hung up on such details that they don''t see how inconsistant the films have been)

It's one thing to dislike a story, and another to dislike it for an incorrect reason.

Being incoherent is what the Matrix is all about but it's not without reason. If the population of Zion's inhabitants were not fooled by the prophecy, would they go as far as Neo did? By watching the next two movies, you would learned that the prophecy was just a seed of lies implanted with the 23 pioneers of the next Zion so that Neo would return to the Source to make his choice.

The fact is that the machines knew exactly where Zion was right from the start. This contradicts the part where Agent Smith was asking Morpheus where Zion was. They didn't need to ask, really.

By having an intricate story, the Matrix becomes unpredictable. Not the other way round. You are continuosly fooled along the way just like Neo was. You are watching the movie from the perspective of what a human would know. Isn't this what stories are about?

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As for the game, yeah the SimCity thingy sounds like fun. But ya know the quote about everything having a beginning having an end? Yeah, how does the game end? Or is it open ended, which goes against everything the Matrix stands for. But then again, in the world of the Matrix, what doesn't? =p

Read the comics, they have some crazy stuff there. I particularly enjoyed those where they had to go to surface level on foot or something. Don't exactly remember what they did there though.

I personally feel that the Matrix universe doesn't really lend themselves to games. The war isn't really a war. It's an illusion. The machines will win any battle had they only wished it. This ain't any fun since you already know it. Ack. =x

[edited by - Darkor on November 16, 2003 3:48:20 PM]

Darkor, the prophecy being false, and the machines knowing hwere Zion was, and The One being a construction of the Architect to counter a flaw in the design is all fine and dandy. The shortcomings of the story are not in its content; they are in its structure. Neo''s big cut in power between the first two movies, Manifestation of Onely powers in the real world, the unjustified presence of divination, the bizarrely inconsistent use of "choice" as a plot element, and of course the fact that massaging a digital heart somehow led to the resuscitation of a physical person.

The lines they drew were blurred and erased and redrawn, and the denoument was such a dizzying chaos of references and nonsense that it serves to show who''s a nut for the Matrix and who isn''t. Those who think the Matrix is the best series ever will bend logic and sanity to find depth and meaning in an absurd story, while others will be mildly annoyed but enjoy the action sequences anyway. Sure they''re good movies, but the story could have used some more work.

Here''s a test for you: Why the heck did the machines give Neo a viking burial???

And hey, when does Simcity end? When you have to eat.

quote:
Here''s a test for you: Why the heck did the machines give Neo a viking burial???

Because they, like Neo, never had a choice in the matter...

A better question...What specificly did Neo do differently then any of the previous incarnations of "the one"?

quote:
It''s one thing to dislike a story, and another to dislike it for an incorrect reason.

No they are the same thing.

quote:
Being incoherent is what the Matrix is all about but it''s not without reason. If the population of Zion''s inhabitants were not fooled by the prophecy, would they go as far as Neo did? By watching the next two movies, you would learned that the prophecy was just a seed of lies implanted with the 23 pioneers of the next Zion so that Neo would return to the Source to make his choice.

Who says the people of Zion followed Neo anywhere? At what point does the illusion end and reality begin...with Neo''s choice? that was decided before he even knew to make it?...Every oh so deep argument in the movie revolves around the base construct of free will verses fate...that we have control over our choices verses we are lost adrift and directed by the situation around us and can only react...one of the oldest Pychological debates in existance...nothing new...nothing earth shattering...nothing any deeper then you will learn about in the average Psy 101 college class.

quote:
The fact is that the machines knew exactly where Zion was right from the start. This contradicts the part where Agent Smith was asking Morpheus where Zion was. They didn''t need to ask, really.

Smith was asking Morphesis for the Zion mainframe axcess codes...

In the first film trinity said that the EMP is the only weapon the humans have that is effective against the machines...But by the second film and on massive display in the third film...seems the humans have discovered gunpowder...now why would Trinity misslead Neo like that?...Unless....

quote:
By having an intricate story, the Matrix becomes unpredictable. Not the other way round. You are continuosly fooled along the way just like Neo was. You are watching the movie from the perspective of what a human would know. Isn''t this what stories are about?

Told from a human perspective? what makes you think Neo was human?

quote: Original post by Run_The_Shadows
FOXED

?

I assume that FOXED is a verb derived from the name of FOX Studios, which is known to be litigation-happy when it comes to fairly innocuous uses of its copyrighted material. When you make a game, fan fiction, or image based on copyrighted material owned by FOX, they sent a team of flesh-eating lawyers to your door, even if you never earned a cent and had no intention of doing anything other than paying tribute to their good idea.

FOX owns the Aliens copyright, which is why I, for one, am surprised that Aliens: Attack on Colony has lasted as long as it has, especially considering how hard Borek has been pimping it here.

FOX doesn''t own the Matrix copyright, I don''t think, but it''s still fair use of the verb to say that the HL mod was "FOXED" when its owner coerced the developer to remove it from circulation.

I think when Trinity said, "It''s the only weapon we have against the machines," I think she meant the Neb, because we never see the Neb with any other weapons. So that makes sense there.

As for the whole "choice" thing, it seems to me that the Wachowski brothers might be big Legacy of Kain fans. The entire LoK series is about fate and how if you do something you''re not supposed to fate redirects itself to make that happen. I think that kind of thing happened in The Matrix, like when Neo decided to save Morpheus'' life instead of sacrifing it, or when he decided to save Trinity instead of Zion. Fate wanted Neo to make the choices it wanted him to make, but Neo made his own. In a way, The Architect represents fate, always trying to control Neo, but he''s always taking different paths. So the Architect (or fate) needs to change things to accomodate for Neo''s choices so that Neo winds up back where fate wants him to be.

I dunno, just trying to connect it to something else philosophical. Still need to play Defiance though.

-----------------------------
A world destroyed, a myth rebord. Some truths should remain untold...

Check out NightRise today, coming eventually from DanAvision Software Entertainment.

http://www.danavisiongames.com

quote: Original post by Iron Chef Carnage
I assume that FOXED is a verb derived from the name of FOX Studios, which is known to be litigation-happy when it comes to fairly innocuous uses of its copyrighted material. When you make a game, fan fiction, or image based on copyrighted material owned by FOX, they sent a team of flesh-eating lawyers to your door, even if you never earned a cent and had no intention of doing anything other than paying tribute to their good idea.

FOX owns the Aliens copyright, which is why I, for one, am surprised that Aliens: Attack on Colony has lasted as long as it has, especially considering how hard Borek has been pimping it here.

FOX doesn''t own the Matrix copyright, I don''t think, but it''s still fair use of the verb to say that the HL mod was "FOXED" when its owner coerced the developer to remove it from circulation.

I don''t know, I think you may be over-reacting about FOX''s ways.. I know many people with fan sites and little game demos, etc and no-one ever MUST take down their work.

Firstly, if no-one earns money, how can the lawyers sue? take you on personally? I doubt that can happen, even if your intentions are malicios in nature. Its a free country with freedom of speech.
I mean, look at www.starwarskid.com, everyone in N.America knows abotu this site, but why is it not down yet, does this site not contain copyrighted material??

Secondly Borek lives in Eastern Europe (is that right?), so american laws don''t exactly apply there, unless they invade

Now, the music industry is finally reaching "Actual people", suing based on music-transfer intentions (incidently directly breaking the law), which is certainly scary. But I see why this is happening, and I directly see laws being broken whenever its done... Suing someone for making a game (school project, let''s say??) is quite far-fetched, particularly when no money is involved.

Now I am not trying to be a smart-ass or claim to know the laws, but I certainly think that people worry too much about these legal details when it comes to personal hobby projects. In fact I may probably be wrong in some of my thougts above, so please correct me! I don''t want to be sued!