what would that test be good for? creating a test in a field as amiguous as game design will only lead to wrong impressions - if you want to estimate someones ability as a designer then look at his portfolio. the way it is now most game designers have a track record anyways, since designer isn´t a position you just get hired into.
send me three gds/concepts and I´ll tell you who´s good and why.

edit: in response to your "Instead of focusing on how well we do, why don't we focus on how to improve as a game designer."

How about why don´t we focus on making games instead of further dragging the game designers occupation into the area of bullshitting? Learning by doing. Now go and make games.

[edited by - Hase on October 15, 2003 5:00:27 AM]

quote: Original post by Warsong
Companies and others can’t see the person grade of design no matter what game you show since the testing ground for it now is actual work, which you can’t get work without experience of work.

There''s always the indie game community, or the modding community etc. Don''t tell me you CAN''T create at least a basic prototype of your game design without being hired by a professional game development company, because it simply isn''t true.

Lack of programming/scripting/mapping/modelling skills is no excuse - if you want to be a game designer I''d strongly recommend learning as many of these skills as you can - particularly since many ''junior designer'' roles will require you to posess at least one of these skills. There are plenty of cheap/free tools out there for all of these things, so lack of money is not an excuse either.

So, a game designer CAN show off his skills. He just has to make a bit of an effort.

I think it is a good thread... and an interesting nut to crack. Actually being forced to follow someone else's rules when designing is often reality. Sometimes publishers dictate certain criterias.. or CEO's. Not all developers (and designers) are able to pursue their own 'dream game'. Look at some of the successful developers out there - they are forced to do sequels, sequels and sequels. I bet that they'd love to do other games even work in other genres.

So.. a designer that isn't capable of designing to another persons tune is in my eyes the worst kind of designer. The one that never will get along with team members, that won't listen to the producer etc.



::aggression is the result of fear::

[edited by - grimjack on October 15, 2003 9:06:47 AM]

quote: Original post by Hase
edit: in response to your "Instead of focusing on how well we do, why don''t we focus on how to improve as a game designer."

How about why don´t we focus on making games instead of further dragging the game designers occupation into the area of bullshitting? Learning by doing. Now go and make games.

[edited by - Hase on October 15, 2003 5:00:27 AM]

Well, when I said why don''t we focus on how to improve as a game designer and then you replied let''s actually make the games you just did what I asked for. By making a game you are becoming a better game designer.

" I would not be better artist than Divinchi if I copy and edit a painting I found on the net to have a computer generate landscape for me and I know nothing about art."

"It’s like how much creativity does one have in a certain type of game. If I came with 20 ideas to remake pong and you like it that’s at least is a number I gave you and it’s an indicator."

Your aurgument is flawed and contradictory, Coming up with ideas to improve pong is no diffrent then painting the mona lisa''s hair purple.

Coming up with ideas on how to "improve" other peoples work takes a lot less creativity then developing an idea from scratch. A blank sheet of paper is the hardest obstacle to overcome. It has nothing to do with less is more the fact is most of the older games where limited by the technology, Does that make them great games designers?


"If I can a great game with 1 button then I would have an easier time creating a game with 2 times the abilities."

"If you were stuck on a small sandy island and you only had matches string and a few logs what can you do? I am not restricting you I am trying to make you think more. You wouldn’t have to think if you have a boat already and a spot light to get help and get off the island."

This another flawed analogy of yours, the fact that you can make a good game with 1 button does not mean you can create a good 2 button game. In fact someone who has been making 2 buttons games as long as you have been making 1 buttons will be able to make a far better game then yours.

If you want an anology. A raft builder using salvaged materials doesn''t not have the skills or experince nessary to build an aircraft carrier with using the latest hightech equipment.

Less in not more, having less means stretching you capabilites as much as possible. Having more means you can perform to your abilites and truely bring out vision.


-----------------------------------------------------
Writer, Programer, Cook, I''m a Jack of all Trades
Current Design project
Chaos Factor Design Document

Warsong, why not try to make a game? I think a person''s design ability can only be determined by a finished product. Something might sound good on paper, but you never really know how well it turns out until it is finished.

Personally, I think you are starting to get a little agitated at the fact that you don''t have a finished product. You only have a collection of assumptions and half-truths to your own abilities. I have mastered the art of marketing my abilities to other people, and the majority of people will believe I am about ten times greater than I really am. Still, no matter how great others think I am or how great I see myself as being, the fact still remains that without proof, I am nothing.

Warsong, I hope you can see how this applies to you. If nobody has a way to measure you against themselves, then they will assume that they are better than you. Hype is an important part of marketing your ablities to other people, but you need to be able to deliver something tangible that will keep that illusion going. Otherwise, people are just going to start realizing that it is just a trick.

If you think the proof you need is easily obtained by anyone, then you are mistaken. At my college, people think that I am this godlike programmer. They always ask how it is so easy for me to do everything. Well, they never see behind the scenes. They don''t understand that all of my free time is spent doing that sort of stuff. As an example, in one of my classes I introduced two new effecient algorithms and built a nice GUI program to demonstrate its'' effectiveness. I did all of this in a matter of a week. Everyone else had really simple things which didn''t even work, and they were just copying implementations. People really started to get aggitated that I could produce things like this in such little time. Ha! Little time indeed. I spent about 60 hours on that project in the coarse of a week. I would go to college, come home and program, go to work, come home to program, get 5 hours sleep, and wake up and do the same thing over again. I barely got that thing done in time, but I acted like it was no problem at all.

Warsong, it is great that you have confidence in your abilities, but you are going to have to devote alot of time to creating something with them if you want anyone to think you are good.

Blah, I´ve been designing games professionally for over two years now, I´d been hoping I was past the "need practise" stage. But yes, you do get better with every concept you write.

As for the rest of the discussion, I think creativity is overrated. True, you need it to be a game designer - but you also need fingers in order to become a piano player.
The real challenge is making games to specifications on the one hand, and games out of ideas that are not your own on the other hand (because that also happens a lot).

James Simmons
MindEngine Development
http://medev.sourceforge.net

A good designer is a designer who designs good games.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

quote: Original post by superpig
A good designer is a designer who designs good games.

Superpig
- saving pigs from untimely fates, and when he''s not doing that, runs The Binary Refinery.
Enginuity1 | Enginuity2 | Enginuity3 | Enginuity4
ry. .ibu cy. .abu ry. dy. "sy. .ubu py. .ebu ry. py. .ibu gy." fy. .ibu ny. .ebu

the follow up question would be: what is the definition of good?