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Back to GameDev: Arena

We have some options - what do you want to do?

Kevin Hawkins · 2003-07-23T14:59:10

After thinking about this contest and all the feedback that I have received, I have determined that we, collectively as a group here, have a few options. Option 1: We start the contest with the arena executable (almost) as-is with a few defect fixes. Advantages: The contest starts within the next 2 weeks. The core of the arena works well. It's just the presentation that needs work. Disadvantages: The arena executable may not work properly for everyone. The defects everyone has been seeing with the download, for the most part, will remain until a later date. Everyone accepts the interface as-is. Option 2: I rewrite parts of the arena executable to allow for some of these other features that have been mentioned. Advantages: The arena executable will (hopefully) work well on everyone's machine. All defects have been fixed due to a redesign. Some of the features that have been requested are implemented, or at the minimum, easily added due to the redesign. Disadvantages: The contest will not start anytime soon. It could be another 2 months or more (keep in mind I only worked on this for about 3-5 hours per week for 2 months.. that trend would have to continue). Potential for new defects due to redesign. Option 3: We start a contest without prizes (for fun) using the current arena executable - a sort of trial run. During the lifetime of this contest, the arena executable and the interface is redesigned and reimplemented to fix defects and include improvements/features based on feedback. Advantages: We have a contest. We get immediate feedback on: the arena executable, the arena interface, and the contest format. Everyone gets a chance to give their input to make a better product (product being the contest). The first official contest would be (in theory) better due to a low defect yield and a reworked/rehashed/reimplemented arena with improvements. Everyone tests the current arena for the contest, as well as the new arena for feedback. Disadvantages: We do not have prizes. The real contest does not start for another couple of months - at least until this first one is over and the new arena version is ready. If anyone has any other advantages/disadvantages for each of these, I'd like to see them. Basically, I realized that my attempt at quickly developing the arena executable might not result in the best and most fair contest possible. And given that I cannot stand having people use my software if it is buggy, I would rather improve it if that is what everyone would rather have. Another reason is that this is a completely new contest for GameDev.net, and while I do not expect to get it right this first time, I would like to make it as good as possible. I leave this up to you, however. If Option 2 or 3 are decided, then just remember that I will not be working on this fulltime, and I will not be spending a couple hours every night trying to complete it. I have a life that I want to keep, a book that I need to get busy on, and everyday work. However, I would spend a few hours per week, and I would be willing to make this contest better if that is the consensus I received from those interested in participating. Also, feature creep will be kept at a minimum. If a new version is to be created, it will have a defined set of improvements, and only those improvements will be included. Anything else will have to wait until after the "official" contest. ***EDIT: To clarify a point made in a reply below, these features have already been determined for the next version of the arena executable. While people may request many features, some extraneous at this point, I already have a list of improvements and fixes. So by saying that feature creep will be kept at a minimum, I mean that my list of improvements is already defined for the next version, and new requests during that version's development will not be implemented. Anyway, as always, provide comments, suggestions, ideas, your name and credit card number, etc. and let me know as a collective whole what you want to do based on the advantages and disadvantages of each option. *** This post has been edited. Please review it for any changes since your last visit. ***

GameDev: Arena Contests

Started by khawk July 16, 2003 09:12 AM

76 comments, last by khawk 20 years, 11 months ago

xEricx

573

July 16, 2003 10:15 AM

I''d say go with #1

It worked well on all my PCs, which have different configs / OS...

As for the problems with downloads... CDR are cheap as hell, and almost everyone has broadband connections nowadays... so I guess it would be pretty easy to ask a friend to download it for you or even get it from an internet cafe or something.

For the compatibility issue... I guess only people with exotic videocards are experiencing problems?

[size="1"]boost-loki-game ai by example-ai wisdom 3

Anonymous

July 16, 2003 10:27 AM

i don''t see why you can''t just release the arena/specs as is, now, as a beta for the whole system. let us play with it, test it, critique it, and form some "unofficial" arena tournaments of our own to help shake out the bugs.

then when you feel comfortable that the arena code is as fair as you can make it, and as flexible as you want it, you can begin the official tournaments in whatever order you feel like. if you''ve set things up correctly by then you should be able to give a new set of specs for those tournaments. or leave the specs fixed for the "for fun" tournament and only change them to something more complicated for the "for prize" tournament.

i''m really only saying all of this because i''m selfish and want to start now! if i have to choose between one of the options, i''d go for #3. i''m also saying this because i probably am not going to be around in another couple of months so i will miss out on the fun.

slepyii

122

July 16, 2003 10:27 AM

I would opt for Option 3. This would give you a chance to work out bugs that may only appear when someone is writting and running their bot in the arena. These wouldn''t necessaraly be crash bugs, but logic type bugs. This would also allow for the arena API to be tweaked if need be before the official contest begins.

I would also agree with making the Arena core Open Source so that others can help develop the arena code, which should make it more stable in the long run. Of course you would be in charge of what was approved for changes, and what was not. I feel that making the arena core open source would not give anyone an advantage over anyone else as the competition is in writing the bot AI and not how well you can interface with the Arena.

- Timothy

Anonymous

July 16, 2003 11:16 AM

I''d stick to Option #3. It would really help you out to remove the bugs, while allowing everyone to begin the develop of their bots. I also agree with the idea of making the arena Open Source, or at least asking for some (let say 3) developers to help you making it so it can get ready earlier and better. Wheter those guys can participate or not will be up to you.

mittens

1,323

July 16, 2003 11:32 AM

I vote for Option 4, which is the option where no contest is held, and I get all the prizes anyway.

Trent Polack
www.polycat.net
trent@polycat.net
Author of Focus on 3D Terrain Programming

Trent Polack
Game Designer, LightBox Interactive
Twitter :: Polycat

Dreddnafious Maelstrom

586

July 16, 2003 11:34 AM

"Let Us Now Try Liberty"-- Frederick Bastiat

CodeDemon

363

July 16, 2003 11:36 AM

Man, some of the replies so far are scaring me. I was really looking forward to entering a worth while contest. It is true that the current executable is buggy. I fixed the main slow-down/white screen problem by replacing the 11MB model with a more light-weight one, and shrinking the textures to reasonable sizes. A lot of systems just couldn''t handle the unoptimized resources.

My main concern is that by having an unofficial contest or by releasing the source code, there no longer is any competition left among players for the official contest: everyone will have access to the resources necessary to make super bots.

Naaga

208

July 16, 2003 11:40 AM

My vote goes to #3. Just think of it as a beta test tournament or something. There should be no prizes, not even a title next to the name or anything, as that would be unfair to those who can''t get it running right away. It''ll give you time to stabilize the exe, and it''ll give us time to get used to how the bots work, which will make the first official contest much more interesting and enjoyable. I also like the idea of people running there own unofficial tournaments. That could get some really good competition going.

__________________________________________________________America seems to like crap because its what we make popular. - Goober King

khawk

3,752

Author

July 16, 2003 11:48 AM

quote: Original post by CodeDemon
Man, some of the replies so far are scaring me. I was really looking forward to entering a worth while contest. It is true that the current executable is buggy. I fixed the main slow-down/white screen problem by replacing the 11MB model with a more light-weight one, and shrinking the textures to reasonable sizes. A lot of systems just couldn''t handle the unoptimized resources.

My main concern is that by having an unofficial contest or by releasing the source code, there no longer is any competition left among players for the official contest: everyone will have access to the resources necessary to make super bots.

I am actually looking into this (the changing of the model).. I have not tried another model yet, but if it makes the contest more accessible, we might go ahead with it while I rewrite what I would like to rewrite. The executable may still crash occassionally, but since that crash is primarily during shutdown, it may still be worth running the official contest now (option 1), or maybe even a mix of options 1 and 3, which was my original plan.

As for open source, I do not want to do that. Not for a while anyway..

Admin for GameDev.net.

lopatsch

122

July 16, 2003 11:49 AM