er, thanks Phantasm, that would be great if I could not work full time to pay for college and just learn, but that''s not going to happen in my circumstances. And I would rather start my career as soon as possible to start learning what the work is really about, I do not want to waste more time than is needed to start.

Just go to college, get all your studies out of the way, then go on to an employer, or try to get an internship while in college. I definitely recommend college. I went to a small 2 year school, got my degree, and I''m lookin for somewhere to get a 4 year degree now.

In college, you will learn various applications instead of one. A potential employer might like that. Not only will you know how to use them, but you will also know the theory behind them and to develop with them. Plus your pretty much forced to do a project so you will be learning and practicing. Also, when you go to college your more open for suggestions because of that whole learning mode you will be in. You can only benefit from it.


wrong is wright

> ... That''s gotta be the stupidest thing I''ve ever heard.
> You''d rather go on ''gut instinct'' and pick someone who
> "might be good with graphics", than someone who went to
> college and got 100% in their art class?

You pass college by doing what others tell you to do, even if it is degretory to your own welfare. *That* is why companies tend to hire people who do well in college.
However, by the same token, they wouldn''t hire someone who had a degree, but who had no true art talent. You need to proove both of those things. It is not a "one or the other" situation, it is a "both are equally important" situation.
Also, there are other ways to proove that you are willing to work hard and do what others say, one of which is just what Bomberman was saying, getting experience in the industry through actual jobs there. You can start at the bottom of the heap, and work your way to the top by working hard. If you do so, then you will have great references, in addition to actual products that have your work in them!
What companies are looking for is hard work and talent. You must proove that you have both, or you will not get hired. However, there are many different ways to proove both of those things, and college is only one of them.
I would reccommend going to college, purely for the reason of expanding your knowlege. However, if you are absolutely certain that computer animation is what you want to do, and will continue to want to do throughout your life, AND you don''t care about knowlege of things other then your own industry, then I don''t see any real reason to go to college.
Of course, I have a natural and inquenchable curiousity, and I will, therefore, goto college, and probably major in everything at least once, and take about 50 years (*wink*) to graduate, just because I want to know everything that I can. I do not care about grades, I care about learning. And let me tell you, there is a HUGE difference.

Heres the deal...

Yeah, I guess from a certain point of view, it does suck that you need a degree to pump gas at a gas station nowadays, and it does cost a lot of money. However, college has a lot of advantages you can get no where else.

1. You will be with many others who have the same interest as you, and may be able to exchange techniques and ideas learned previous to college education.

2. You will be challenged. Remember how you felt the first time you learned multiplication? Now, thinking back on those first times tables when you are in Calculus, doesn''t it just seem incredibly easy? When you learn to do harder things, things that used to seem hard just fall into place. Also, you will learn better problem solving skills in the long run through experiences and projects in college.

3. College will help you learn faster. Sure, even if you are the most dedicated person working at home from books, you are going to come across distractions, and often just get sick of learning. This will slow you down. In college you have no choice. You are paying for it, and you gotta go do it.

4. Learning from books is great, don''t get me wrong. I''m tearin through books even now, to learn new things. However, books become outdated fast, especially in this field. Technology is growing at an amazing rate, and most colleges keep their classes on the front line of that technology, that is something books can not give you.

Well all that said, I hope you take college into serious consideration. There are a lot of colleges out there that specialize in art, computers, and even Game Development(Digipen). Not to mention college can be fun

About the money, you should look for scholarships. You''d be amazed who is giving away money out there, and their reasons are even more amazing. I''ve seen scholarships for people just because they are tall...and no, it wasn''t a basketball scholarship. Give this some serious thought...

Goodluck, and I hope to see your work in future games

Thank you Cessen, someone has agreed with me. And I can still get a degree once I have started my career and have the money, of course this will probably only be for the sake of having a degree, I can learn everything and more myself. I also plan on teaching myself everything I can eventually, first in the industry (programming, sound, business) and then anything else. I don't even think of graduating as that big of a deal, since I won't stop learning, the only difference is that my work needs to be a greater priority, and I can learn anything I want at any time I want.

And Raz, how much more of a challenge can you get than teaching yourself computer animation and art in a year and a half. Which, by the way , will be about 2-3 years quicker than going to college, this is the main reason I do not want to go if I don't need too. Also, remember I said I have been homeschooled my entire life, I've been "working at home from books" since Kindergarden, i'm always in a "learning mode". And it's also not just forcing myself to learn it, animation and art is a lot of fun, i'm usually staying up late learning it just becuase it's so much fun to do.

And you will see my work in future games

Edited by - Bomberman on 4/28/00 6:18:57 PM

I have a severe learning diability , I cant stand classrooms/lecture rooms or whatever and I ''m not too hot about people explaining things to me either (instructors). I learn faster and better if I just get a book and some time. So what happens is (I am in college) , I have never attend class. I buy the books , spend the first 3-4wks of the semester studying the relevant material , and take my exams. I usually end up with A''s in all my exams , but the overall grade is a C , why , atendance points (aint that a bitch) . N-way , my point is this educational system is too f**cked up to acommodate different learning styles and its rather unfair to dismiss a person just because they dont have that piece of paper. My associate graduated with a bsc in Computer Science software engineering yet the fool cant even send an email attachment . How do explain that ? Programming instructors give you extra points for being in the lab , volunteering service at a local nursing home , perfect attendance , and for a price you can get answer sheets to exam questions , you can get at least a D or C for attempting projects or homework etc Basically you can get way with a C every semester doing shit.

Dont get me started with the syllabus design . The Deans or whoever makes up the degree plans just dont know shit about the programming or computer industry . Classes , uninspired , instructors too lazy , equipment too old , What am I to do ? Yah Yah yah , I know what you gonna say , been down that road too many times . Just bend over , close you eyes and enjoy the ride Ha ?

..Trying to take me outta the Ghetto , but I'm still buck wild . So I'll hustle up wit em , knuckle up wit em hoody hooo..............

Bomberman,

Once it gets to a certain point, then yes, experience becomes more important. However, have you actually looked at job listings in Computer Science other then Graphics? Every single one says B.S. In Computer Science required. Who knows why? Amybe they get a little tax break for every college grad they hire to promote kids to go to college. Or maybe they want to make sure that their employees can learn. Who knows, but that''s the way it is.

You simply will not get those 5 years of experience without a degree. Like I said, for you, Art School would definately be the way to go. Trust me, you may know how to use 3D Studio MAX R3, but in order to do game art, you need to be able to draw.

I have this book called "Game Design: Secrets of the Sages" (something like that) and in a chapter called Game Art, about 10 different game designers and artists say the same thing "Just knowing how to use Photoshop and 3D Studio MAX is not enough." YOu need to know the fundamentals of art and you have to be creative and you have to know how to draw! Plus a couple of other things. If you don''t have this book, I highly recommend it.



Jason Wood
Creator of TIMELINE
http://timeline.50megs.com

Hey I''m not sure what the deal is for artists but i think it''s a damn good idea to go to uni if you want to be a programmer. For example, i looked at the jobs page at codemastersand they require a degree in a computer related course. I''m going to uni in september to do computer science. I really want to work for a game developer but if i somehow couldn''t at least i could be almost guarenteed a job somewhere else. At manchester uni (where i''m going) i think only one computer scientist didn''t get a job out of the hundreds that went there.

"Born of a Broken Man, but not a broken man."

hi

i dont think u need a college degree to get the job (even thou, unfortuannly, it helps) but if u can, go, This is my last year in HS and im not going to college cause of many different things. I already got a job in R&D in a company. I quitted because i was working with guys with CS degrees and didnt now spat and i wasnt going to take that up much time.

but if you can go, go, you will not loose anything (except 5 yearrs of your life) but if u dont think its worthy to go, dont go just foor the sake of the degree.

btw, can i see any of your work ? mail me if you dont mind (magick_pt@geocities.com)

While attending a workshop that my school requires us to take, the subject of "what we feel we learning in college" came up. What the students eventually determined was that all of our degree specific courses were well worth the money, but classes like philosophy and other gen-ed classes felt unneeded. The workshop leader then brought up this point: Lets say your boss asks you and a few of your co-workers out to dinner. You know that this dinner is about picking one of you to receive a promotion. Well, you are definitely not going to talk about work the whole time are you? So, lets say one of your boss brings up the fact that he really enjoys Pavarotti(spelling?). Well, if you say "Gee, I really enjoy NASCAR racing too!"....who do you think will get the promotion....probably not you. The whole point is that the rest of your education helps to make you a well rounded individual.

Ok, so I don''t totally agree with the whole ''well-rounded'' individual idea, but he did have a point. If all I took were CS classes, then what would I talk about with people?



"Why am I the only one on the away team with a red shirt!?"

BASSOFeeSH
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