quote: Original post by thelurch
I actually greatly respect whoever created Tetris, I think he must have been some sort of super-genius!

Alexey Pajitnov, actually a very sad story, but afaik he got the rights back this year, so he can finally start collecting royalties.

So...very...many....quotation marks...GAH!

Now to the point.

I see your point, to a certain extent - BUT - simple, yes, has been done before, and as far as I am concerned, I can only play simple games for so long. I am not easily entertained. If developers had stuck to simple game design, then they wouldn''t have made such games as The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time, or Morrowind, or Halo, or Unreal Tournament (not overly complex but, more so than Tetris and Asteroids etc..) and the list goes on (I''m not meaning to exclude any certain game, so don''t take my list the wrong way).

I hope you see my point, because I have attempted to see yours.



Of course that''''s just my opinion, I could be wrong.
-)(-Dennis Miller-)(-

I went to a talk by Alexy Pajitnov a few weeks ago. It''s very interesting how just messing around can result in such an addictive game.

Yeah, actually Alexey Pajitnov (the designer of Tetris) gave a talk at my university which I missed. But I do know a bit about how it was made. Basically there was this game called Pentaminos (or something like that) where you had all these shapes made of 5 blocks and you had to fit them together. Pajitnov made it simpler so that everything''s made out of 4 blocks. At first the game was pretty boring because blocks kept stacking up and the screen would get filled, so he just changed the rules a little by saying "when blocks line up, you eliminate a row". Boom, tetris was born.

(Hopefully that''s not completely inaccurate hehe. I read it in my illustrated history of video games book a few months ago)

Raj

Yeah, the ACM talk (I see that you''re from IL). I made it, it was pretty good, too bad you missed it. Your description is accurate.

Why do only complex games get made? Because everyone that makes games has to do it for fun. If they just make games for money, they drop out of the industry because of stress. And what''s fun?? Complex is fun, simple is not.

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I am the master of stories.....
If only I could just write them down

Would you call Deus Ex, Black & White, Thief, or The Sims "simple" games? I certainly hope not. And yet these games have sold astounding numbers of copies. Has it occurred to you that maybe there are people who LIKE complex or realistic games?

The real issue is not dumbing down the game -- its dumbing down the interface. People will play any game of any complexity as long as the control interface makes sense to them -- for some people, a realistic simulator with a twelve hour learning curve is no biggie, but most people want to be up and playing easily within no more than half an hour -- ideally they want to jump right in and already know how to play it. Easiest way to do this is mimic the interfaces of other games -- the next best way is to make the controls simple to understand, a la Black & White.

I think this is why I take exception to those who tout Game Focus as the solution to bad games. Game Focus is a myth in my opinion -- game focus is another way of saying "the thing the game does" -- suggesting that the game is "too complex" to play if it offers the slightest degree of true interactivity. I say Pshaw. Build it -- and make it Accessible -- and they will come.


Brian Lacy
Smoking Monkey Studios

Comments? Questions? Curious?
brian@smoking-monkey.org

"I create. Therefore I am."

In some games complexity is appropriate, others not. I haven''t really run into a situation where simplicity was looked down on, so I can''t help much there. Simple doesn''t really sell well though, and as to why I can only say that gamers seem to be looking for the added depth that a more complex game can provide.
The other thing is that simpler games lack a certain "coolness" that attracts potential buyers and impresses reviewers. You can''t wow them with a Tetris-like thing nowadays.

It would seem to me that it doesn''t really matter whether it is complex or simple, so long as it is an enjoyable experience for the user. Unless you want to sell a lot of copies, in which case it also needs to attract gamers. That is something "raw gameplay" can''t do because they haven''t played it yet.

I think I''m only stating the obvious...I dunno, the complex/simple debate seems much like the 2d/3d debate in that fun, successful games can be made either way.

It''s where games are going, and what audiences will demand, and maybe even might be an more compelling entertainment application.

Adventuredesign

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Games get made more complex now for the reason that being original is difficult, but it''s easy to be complex.
-->Remember the Othello/Reversi sloagan: a minute to learn, a lifetime to master.
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Tetris is not a game that most people would pay $40 for. Then again, it is not a game that would cost $40 per copy to develop either.
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