Yay
yay
yay...
I like all your ideas

quote: Original post by Gaping Head Wound
I''m new here, so i''m not too familiar with the general ethics on posting but here goes.


A few ideas i''d like to get feedback on:

stamina/pain rather than 100%-0% health:

if a player is wearing a bulletproof helmet but is shot in the head, they''d black out and fall on the ground for a short period of time. (yay? nay?)

yay. but ill only repeat this once for everything. there should be a combined degraded performance threshold. some things contribute more some less. some unlock effects of degrading that rise to black out. and there are some that will argue with this premise and pervert the questionaire because of it. i wont.

if the player sprints until the stamina bar is depleted, he blacks out and stumbles/falls down. (yay? nay?)

yat. excite bike meets 3d shooter.

if a player is shot and bleedign from an arterial wound (i''ve already got this working, it''s just a particle generator at the impact/wound site) or struggling about on broken limbs or enemy-fire-assisted-amputated-nubs, the pain indicator rises, and when it peaks the player taps out. (yay? nay?)

yay

when sniping the player can hold his breath to steady their rifle, but it takes away their stamina, meaning that if they need to get up and sprint to safety they might risk blacking out.

nay cause you dont hold your breath while sniping. you breath normal and shoot on the pause in the exhale. if you hold your breath you cant control your heart. there tends to be a natural heartbeat pause at the end of an exhale. anyway there is for people that practice it. women are better at this then men.

__________________________________
____________________________

WARNING: Combat can be hazardous to your health.


after sustained gunfire the player can go deaf. i could do this with an EAX effect, lowering the high and mid frequencies to simulate the SPR shellshock effect, or just cut all sounds for a short while. (yay? nay?)
yay. ever had a gun go off next to your ear. its not something you experience on a range. it sucks ass.

players can go blind as a result of flashbang grenades going off right in their face, or nerve gas, or poisonous gas, or muzzle flashes. (yay? nay?)
yay

players can be paralyzed by being shot in the spine (hitbox running along the inside of the torso, must penetrate the armor and torso to sever spinal chord) (yay? nay?)

yay cept i got to ask why not model hit boxes for the whole enchilada.. then i thought cause you would be pretty good bout spamming up the whole enchilada.

medics can open up a menu or have a specialized HUD that shows their teammates'' heart rates (blood pressure and stress), brainwaves (deaf, blind, disoriented, pain) and a 3d model of their teammate which can be spun around to show the wound sites (bullethole decals on models) and display little text messages: BLIND, DEAF, BLEEDING, etc. (yay? nay?)

nay. what use unless your going to restrict communications?

quote:
when lookign through a scope a player fires a shot and then the enemy looks up at where the shot came from. if the enemy spots them, the player starts to shake/sway more, as if stressed or in fear. (yay? nay?)

interesting! cept mid combat people dont freak like that. not predicably like that. these soldiers are atleast special forces grade. their nerves tend to be pretty strong. while i could see a normal soilder starting to shake i dunno. adrenaline is a weird substance. it causes a mixture of hormones that tends to supprese that performance type shaking. nevertheless soldiers have been known to balk at orders. but its usually at discernable points. underfire isnt so bad as advancing underfire. but how would you simulate that in game thats fps. this is fps right?

when playing as a k9 unit soldier you can see the scent of an enemy as red puffs floating about, being blown by the wind. also, things like traps and bombs would be visible through walls and such like a white haze over the mine site. (yay? nay?)
nay. cooky

in multiplayer, players aren''t "dead" unless they are unable to move, so things like camping and AFK is allowed. so if you lose both legs and a large proportion of your torso and only have one arm but you manage to drag yourself around the map in a circle while everyone else gets killed/incapacitated, there''s a chance that you will win the round. this could simulate the "survivors win, no matter how f*cked up they are" kind of rule. also the "it aint dead till i say it''s dead. now kill it some more" mentality. (politically incorrect i know, but i want this game to be gratuitous, gruesome, grisly, graphic, lemme look through the thesaurus and find more g words...) (yay? nay?)

you can play test the above long before you write. i invite you to go download urban terror mod for quake 3. cept. its taste. i hate it. i love urban terror. but i hate survival. its slow. its tense but dieing early sucks. being incapcitated early might have value cept if your incapcitated people would tend to just kill you. i mean it might hold my interest if i could drag myself to a hall and snipe it but is that going to be allowed? also there is a nasty thing in survival bout not camping in an offensive sense. just hiding. its really annoying when your side won. your dead. but your guys cant find the one hold out. nobody has perfect survival/ you must defend this. to keep people honest.
_________________________________________________________________

Weapons of War

players will be able to customize their regular loadout, but there is nothing for them on the field. no health, no ammo, nothing but dead enemies to steal ammo from and maybe a medic or fresh water. medics can heal wounds (but not reattach limbs) restore blood, kill pain, etc., water can stop the pain and stop the bleeding. (yay? nay?)

Urban Terror for Quake3 survival mode is that basically. its fun. cept i like it better in team DM mode (instead of waiting for the team to finish you respawn after a delay). but still lots of people like survivor.

weapons will not affect speed, but ammo will. with all these modern alloys and plastics, it makes sense that they would be light. but the ammo (metal bullets, heavy explosives, etc) can weigh the player down. (yay? nay?)

yay to anything that adds metagame depth. if your going to hit box why not hitbox the gear?

players can carry extra stuff in big bags and carry them with them, like in big duffel bags, but can only use one handed weapons like this. they can drop these in the middle of a firefight, but there is a chance that if the bag is hit the ammo inside may detonate. medics can use these bags to store more medical supplies which can be damaged if shot. (yay? nay?)

yay cept ammo isnt to insanely explosive. it explodes but doesnt chain react well. there isnt a compression just tends to fling near by bullets (not at bullet speed the actual entire case)

players carry an onboard computer which enables their HUD. using things like night vision and displaying the hud and gps map drain this, also using weapons that use electricity (belt fed machineguns, electronically detonated explosives, remote controls, etc.) drains this too. the battery is charged kinetically, so the player cannot sit and camp with a digital zoom/night vision/rangefinder rifle scope on before the battery runs low. (yay? nay?)

nay so much realism so little batteries... camping doesnt play bad in these sorts of games. hiding plays bad. there is a difference. camping a point where you can project offense is in the spirit of a war simulation. if your going to prosue that simulation why fight yourself. wont be fun if you do that. there are reasons people dont sit still though in battle. there is reasons they do and they dont. mainly cause sitting still makes you a damn target. but also always you to systematically project influence.


two ways of holding the weapon: from the hip and at the shoulder. when at the hip the gun takes a second to turn (so if you turn your head quickly it takes a second for the gun to catch up) when at teh hip there is no aiming reticule. scopes cannot be used when at the hip. if there is a laser targeting device that can be used. when at teh shoulder the scope can be toggled, iron sites can be used, and the gun turns with your head like a turret like in all the otehr FPS games. (yay? nay?)

yay cept move the zero point for the hip. one thing you can do if the zero point stays at the same point is take a grease pencil and mark your screen with the non scope reticle. Urban Terror sniper rifles again. scopes are fine till the enemy gets to damn close. then you cant see wide enough view in a scope. so you got to go to scopeless targeting. with assault rifles they are nice and give you a fake reticle. with sniper rifles to balance them without a scope you get notta.

grenades:

spur: upon detonation it sends razor sharp spurs flying in all directions. these are the size of quarters or coasters, not saw blades. these can damage equipment, cause a lot of pain, and make you bleed real good.

frag: upon detonation it sends hot shrapnel through the air. these flying chunks of metal can hit someone 100 meters away (no more lame-assed blast radius. it''s all radial/projectile)

flare: when thrown they fly like a roman candle and then stay afloat for a while lighting up large areas. used to brighten areas of forest and night time situations, and also very useful for getting that gorgeous tan.

conc/percussion grenades: deafens players, knocks them over, disorients them, can detonate explosives, shatters bones, ruptures internal organs, lethal at close range...

gas (flame) when the pin is pulled it starts releasing a flammable gas. at the end of the time fuse limit it sparks, igniting the gas for a firey effect. can be ignited prematurely by gunfire, blah blah. if for some reason the fuse does not spark and set it off (dropped from too high damaging internal componants, falls into water), the gas floats int he air for a bit before dissipating. during this time it can be ignited by gunfire. also hazardous to breathe in.

napalm: when it explodes it spews a sticky, flammable substance. it sticks to skin and escpecially hair (meaning head is vulnerable) and burns for a short time (30 seconds) burns hotter, cannot be put out by water (floats to surface, cannot come up for air)

gas: (poison/nerve) poison kills immediately if not sooner. actually, the heart stops and the brain commits suicide, metabolising its own cells. no escaping this except for a gasmask. can contaminate water, making it harmful to enter it for a while. nerve: can cause convultions (takes away control from player, fires erratically, cannot control movement, might fall down and flop around) deafness, blindness, hallucinations (hearing things, seeing things) or insanity (friend or foe identification might switch, causing you to kill teammates, also voice communication comes out as babble (so you cant alert your team of your bad mood.)) (yay? nay?)


grenades are soooo lethal. they are the one thing in the movies that are under done. there is no flash no fire with concussion grenades. just brutal serious damage. ranges are typically underestimated by nonmilitary simply because people cant believe it. for example arty shells cause nose bleeds at 200 meters. serious force. arty shells are bunches more powerful but!! nobody believes taht either... frag/concussion grenades .. stand in the middle of a goal on a football field. everything in the goal standing up is out of action. everything standing up all the way from you to a tad short of the next goal line is endanger.

forgot phosphorous grenades. more common then "napam" same description. cept it doesnt float burns in water. burns through metal. doesnt go out. has it own oxygen. incredibly hot. covers a huge radius. and not everyone got them in vietnam simply because not everyone could throw them far enough to be safe.

grenades indoors are particular scary. there is no surviving in the sense that your still capable of fighting. even if you get behind a safe or something your ears will be bleeding, your nose will be bleeding, you''ll have a major concusion, completely disoriented, knocked out. call it a day. games typically under


in general though chemical stuff isnt used as an attack. its used as a funnel. you forgot white foam chemical agents too. just as realistic as nerve gas grenades which arnt very. we do have white foam chemical arty shells though so if were stretching we can use them on grenades. all it is is a slow release chemical agent thats designed to convince you that passing by here is bad. its like ok woot our entire 3 divisions are cutting off their escape in this valley. great! shoot the bad guy is hading for a pass to escape the trap. Arty Chemical foam into the pass. with big sign that says Go for it you dar succors. same with rocket deployed landmines. arty deployed landmines. sprinkle them all into the pass. the chemical agent + the landmines is enough to convince most forces that running through that pass aint worth it. certainly it will take time. doctrine says in general dont let an obstacle funnel you though ... thats what its there for. to funnel you.

When I first ot hit by those ghosts in RTCW, it scared the crap out of me blacking out like that. RTCW used the effect in moderation and retained the effect until heinrich, then I started getting pissed that it happened every 5 secs.

As for the weapon not slowing you down; remember that RTCW started out with flamers at full speed when they carried their weapons and it was a pain in the butt, every noob joining with a flamethrower. Imagine the pazer, venom, and flamer at full speeds; the game would be just unplayable.

If anything should slow you down though, it would be the weapon and not it''s ammo. As practical as the ammo slowing you down may sound, it won''t make sence to the average gamer and is some variable that they shouldn''t have to worry about.

Carcass Rules!

"batteries charged kinetically"

You heard a thing about electroactive polymers, didn''t you?

For those with no idea of what I''m speaking of, they''re currently testing this stuff to generate electricity for a soldier''s equipment.

The electroactive polymer is put in the heel of the boot, when they step, the polymer is stretched, generating electricity.

I also swear I remember hearing about or seeing a jogging radio that used the person''s bounce while running to generate electricity for the radio.

If you go to DARPA and look at their exoskeleton project, the most promising energy sources are chemical or hydrocarbon fuels.

Death... passing out, blacking out... end the game. As game design goes...

I''d suggest a modification for your blackout idea. When, on the unlikely occasion someone gets knocked out or stunned, they drop, camera locked. They look dead to the enemy, but unless someone makes sure that they''re dead, they''re able to get up a little while later. Admittedly, most of these games are too fat paced to make much of a difference, but it could lead to some neat cinematic situations where someone looks dead, and you''re so caught up in your rush that you forget to shoot them again to make sure, and advance your lines past them, and then get shot in the back when they wake up.

You should make it a combo, both the ammo and weapon should slow you down.

oh great!

thanks for the feedback people!

@declspec: Damn, you know a LOT about military technology! i completely forgot about the foam! email me and we''ll talk.

("batteries charged kinetically" You heard a thing about electroactive polymers, didn''t you?)

-no, i didn''t but could you shed some light on the subject? i''d like to know more.

The blacking out thing was to create that feeling of battle, where you can''t be sure if the enemy is down or what, so you waste the rest of your clip in making sure they stay down, only to find that you''ve got no ammo blah blah, cool stuff. stressful or whatever.

sorry for the late response.









...this is a recording.

quote: Original post by Gaping Head Wound
if a player is wearing a bulletproof helmet but is shot in the head, they''d black out and fall on the ground for a short period of time. (yay? nay?)

Methinks they''d also be deafened. Also, the force of the bullet has to go somewhere. I imagine it would partially crumple and injure them. Whatever happens, the helmet wouldn''t be good for more than a few hits.

quote:
if the player sprints until the stamina bar is depleted, he blacks out and stumbles/falls down. (yay? nay?)

I fall over when I run out of stamina. I only black out if I''m also very tired. You really two different statistics: one for short-term energy, and one for long-term energy. Sleep can restore long-term (and obviously short-term) energy, whilst short-term energy might be restored with energy foods, drugs, or adrenalin-inducing events (such as being shot at, or seeing a new and fearsome enemy).

quote:
if a player is shot and bleedign from an arterial wound (i''ve already got this working, it''s just a particle generator at the impact/wound site) or struggling about on broken limbs or enemy-fire-assisted-amputated-nubs, the pain indicator rises, and when it peaks the player taps out. (yay? nay?)

Hmm. In the real world, it is very easy for individuals to die. That''s why battles are fought with many thousands of soldiers. In a game, you have to make allowances - unless you''re controlling thousand of characters, or you really want a harshly realistic game, you have to be unreasonably able to take damage. It''s probably a bad idea for your limbs to be removable.

quote:
when sniping the player can hold his breath to steady their rifle, but it takes away their stamina, meaning that if they need to get up and sprint to safety they might risk blacking out.

Wouldn''t you use some kind of stand to help you with keeping your rifle steady? In MGS you can use drugs to steady yourself.

quote:
after sustained gunfire the player can go deaf. i could do this with an EAX effect, lowering the high and mid frequencies to simulate the SPR shellshock effect, or just cut all sounds for a short while. (yay? nay?)

If you''re going to do that, you should also have an option for ear-protectors.

quote:
players can go blind as a result of flashbang grenades going off right in their face, or nerve gas, or poisonous gas, or muzzle flashes. (yay? nay?)

Temporary blindess is called for, I think. My space-sim temporarily ''blinds'' you if you point your ship directly at the sun, or some other bright light source. If you''re going to mess about with people''s eyes, why not simulate adjusting them as they move around: if you move from a light to dark (or vice versa) area, everything is dim (or washed out); you can hide somewhere dark in ambush, but you can''t see so good when you jump out. You need sunglasses. And, of course, gas masks.

quote:
players can be paralyzed by being shot in the spine (hitbox running along the inside of the torso, must penetrate the armor and torso to sever spinal chord) (yay? nay?)

Perhaps on a ''nightmare'' difficulty mode, otherwise this would be unfair to the player. Talking of bullets penetrating things: what about shooting through walls?

quote:
medics can open up a menu or have a specialized HUD that shows their teammates'' heart rates (blood pressure and stress), brainwaves (deaf, blind, disoriented, pain) and a 3d model of their teammate which can be spun around to show the wound sites (bullethole decals on models) and display little text messages: BLIND, DEAF, BLEEDING, etc. (yay? nay?)

I don''t see anything obviously wrong with this, except how are the medics going to get this information? In a futuristic setting, armour might be smart enough to tell a medic where it had holes in it. I think a contemporary setting would be limited to heart rate, blood pressure and chemical signals. I doubt brainwaves could be used to find if someone is blinded or deafened, although I guess emotional states is possible. I don''t know how reliable ECGs are.

quote:
when lookign through a scope a player fires a shot and then the enemy looks up at where the shot came from. if the enemy spots them, the player starts to shake/sway more, as if stressed or in fear. (yay? nay?)

I don''t like this. If you want the player to be scared: scare him - don''t tell him ''you are scared''.

quote:
when playing as a k9 unit soldier you can see the scent of an enemy as red puffs floating about, being blown by the wind. also, things like traps and bombs would be visible through walls and such like a white haze over the mine site. (yay? nay?)

Of course. Would human soldiers have technology that does something similar? Presumably your tech is advanced, because you can fit a human-level intelligence in a dog. Something I''ve been interested in is an infra-red mode - a geniuine one that responds to weapons fire and air currents. Some animals (sharks for one) can see electrical fields, and many can echo-locate...

quote:
in multiplayer, players aren''t "dead" unless they are unable to move, so things like camping and AFK is allowed. so if you lose both legs and a large proportion of your torso and only have one arm but you manage to drag yourself around the map in a circle while everyone else gets killed/incapacitated, there''s a chance that you will win the round. this could simulate the "survivors win, no matter how f*cked up they are" kind of rule. also the "it aint dead till i say it''s dead. now kill it some more"

Chances are that if your legs get blown off you''re going to be dead or in shock in short order anyhow. Precisely how you plan to survive the loss of a ''large proportion of your torso'', I am unsure. I don''t know if you should win if you go into shock.

quote:
players will be able to customize their regular loadout, but there is nothing for them on the field. no health, no ammo, nothing but dead enemies to steal ammo from and maybe a medic or fresh water. medics can heal wounds (but not reattach limbs) restore blood, kill pain, etc., water can stop the pain and stop the bleeding. (yay? nay?)

Water stops pain? I think this is a difficulty level issue. It is likely that you would bring medical equipment with you: fast-acting painkillers, stimulants, and no doubt other things civilians aren''t allowed to know about. Reattaching limbs is impossible except in a futuristic setting, of course. If you''re on a easy setting and aren''t simulating limbs, you might say that you can only restore health up to the nearest 10% - so at 47% you can get up to 50% but no higher.

quote:
weapons will not affect speed, but ammo will. with all these modern alloys and plastics, it makes sense that they would be light. but the ammo (metal bullets, heavy explosives, etc) can weigh the player down. (yay? nay?)

Difficulty level issue again, I''d say.

quote:
players can carry extra stuff in big bags and carry them with them, like in big duffel bags, but can only use one handed weapons like this. they can drop these in the middle of a firefight, but there is a chance that if the bag is hit the ammo inside may detonate. medics can use these bags to store more medical supplies which can be damaged if shot. (yay? nay?)

In these modern times, soldiers have been known to employ ''belts'' and ''knapsacks''. You might allow the player to use two one-handed weapons at a time, and store additional weapons about his/her person.

quote:
players carry an onboard computer which enables their HUD. using things like night vision and displaying the hud and gps map drain this, also using weapons that use electricity (belt fed machineguns, electronically detonated explosives, remote controls, etc.) drains this too. the battery is charged kinetically, so the player cannot sit and camp with a digital zoom/night vision/rangefinder rifle scope on before the battery runs low. (yay? nay?)

Computers don''t generate electricity, you need a battery pack for that. Also, you can get night vision without batteries (although it''s nowhere near as good) - you might fall back on a more primitive night-vision mode when you run out of power. You may also want to note that the power consumed by a remote control varies according to the range needed. Also, I doubt that kinetic-charging alone would be sufficient to run a minigun. Seiko make a kinetically charged watch.

quote:
two ways of holding the weapon.

Sure. This is a per-weapon issue, since you probably wouldn''t be looking down the barrel of a minigun as you fired it.

quote:
flare: when thrown they fly like a roman candle and then stay afloat for a while lighting up large areas. used to brighten areas of forest and night time situations, and also very useful for getting that gorgeous tan.

I don''t know what they''re called, but there are chemical lights I''ve seen in a few films - you break a seal and two chemicals mix together giving off light. These could be an interesting alternative to the improbably powerhungry flashlights which seem to dominate at the moment - flashlights are very bright, but directional, whilst these chemical lights are typically soft, but spread over a wide area.

Also, I''ve used flashlights that can be configured to produce either a narrow, bright, beam or a 180-degree soft glow.

And... shouldn''t an enemy respond when he sees a highlight moving along a wall?


Just Plain Wrong