I agree that language is the more appropriate term for what you refer to as the external. This places the game designer in the role of language designer. To carry this further, such a game would have to allow players to add enhancements to this language - perhaps much in the same way that innovations in a sport eventually become part of that sport - sometimes even carrying with them the name of the player who first introduced the innovation. I would place ''solutions'' higher up the ladder than ''words''. I would expect ''solutions'' to be built from ''words'' - more like ''sentences'' or ''paragraphs'' - in the same way that a mathematical formula finds expression through a symbolic representation. But to carry on - players would also need the ability to create new words in order to address the limitations of the initial language. Introducing new objects is akin to adding new nouns, and the activities associated with these objects - new verbs. In turn this could also introduce new skills etc. For example, introducing a boomerang - an object, a verb and the use of the object - a new skill. Moreoever, the introduction of a new concept - "that which comes back"

I like your ideas regarding ''recording'' gameplay - how much better to explain an "in game experience" than to refer another player to the recording of it. I really like the idea of ''npc as macro'' - I see a lot of possibility in that - but I think the notion of ''macro'' has some limitations to it in regard to the autonomy of the npc.

I recently started thinking in "game" - an experience which drove the point of this thread home, with clarity.

The game I had been playing at the time was "Desperados" (sp?). For those of you who do not know the game, its a (semi)3d isometric, mouse-op game in which you direct the movements, actions, etc. of a set of characters maybe 1/900th the screen in size. Set in the wild west, there are civilians and armed-opponents which you can shoot/knockout/trick/etc.

The important feature of this game is that despite representing a real world (which you scroll around), the game has many features of a language. Each character has their own vocabulary of actions they are able to perform (iconically represented), and each character in the gameworld has information that can be told about it (from posture - literal - to - super-real - representations of actual lines of sight, even mood, and so on). Furthermore, sensible sequences of game narration can be created; each character has a short memory, the equivalent of a two word sentence, which can be used to put multiple, simultaneous actions or possibilities, etc. into effect.

After playing this game for a while and then heading off to sleep, I lay in bed thinking using the symbols and structures of the game. I was not thinking with reference to the game, rather I was thinking as I typically would, about different ideas and about feelings related to different structures of thought. The interesting thing was that my imagination represented these ideas and feelings within the context of the language of "Desparados". Naturally, it''s difficult to explicate using English outside the context of the game - its rather like translating. A [green highlighted figure] might represent a focus of attention I was happy with, a [red highlighted figure] might represent something I felt I had to do something about; a [figure with stars around its head] might appear if I was feeling perplexed; shifts of location were part of this, as if searching, but movements must have been tacit, as if aided by thoughts of an invisible mouse, or other memories outside the game, (it is difficult to retrace the steps these thoughts took at so late a stage).

I have yet to see what effect playing the game for the same time again will have.

Essentially, it was the operation of a game in this capacity that I was talking about. This is not an isolated instance; friends of mine have talked about dreaming of playing different games and it''s inevitable that their own experiences, of the world, were mingled with the game elements of those dreams. If this was recognized more clearly in developing games, the facility of games for sharing ideas would be so much greater (games might cease to be such a clic experience, as town management and economic simulations have demonstrated). It might also lead to better interaction methodologies.

Game as literature? Game as dream fodder? Language as habit? Habit forming language? I wonder how much game play is required to enduce a dream about the game? And for that matter - what kind of game play? Dreams - now there is a subject! Francis Crick - one of the fellows who first ''unravel'' DNA thinks dreams are irrelavant - the equivalent of static electricity discharges. I find that extreme overly reductivist. Others of course hold that dreams are messages from God - I suppose that''s one way of interpretting them too. Whatever the case may be, I suspect they have much to do with language - deep language - primal language - if there can be such a thing. A respected friend told me that dreams are the mechanisms by which our bodies realign themselves with our minds. From that angle, the language notion - the deep language notion makes sense too. Further, the continued repetitive notions of game play, hand to eye, eye to mind - also lend themselves to enducing dreams.

Incidentally, bishop_pass brought up the notion of ''game as language'' in this thread void MMORPG (&MORTS);

game as language.....
....for great justice...

I think the essential features of game thought were: an intended end state, a set of equivalent alternatives for reaching that end state (with representations), some sort of measure of equivalence (comparable parallel game experiences). The equivalence between reaching endgame and reaching a satisfactory conclusion to my thoughts thus made using game paradigms/syntagms possible (at least at archetypal levels, if not at more detailed/specialized levels).

when a judge (name slips my mind) said games could not convey a message, i quickly wrote up this program to prove games could indeed convey a message. this is more of a "game as art," but art, in its essence, is communication.

www.nashville.com/~mtdew/futility.exe

Ah, this is beautiful! It directly captures emotion by confronting the player''s attempts to learn the language of the game with (semi)social situations that present identical barriers to that learning process! I enjoyed this immensely.

However... I am concerned that the mode of communication may result in developing a pathology :D. Short of programming counter (semi) social situations (or otherwise), the player is not invited to present their knowledge about the game to the game itself, and only by writing this now do I overcome that barrier. Once the player "knows" something, it is crucial to the development of the game language that the player be able to reconfigure the environment in a way that incorporates that knowledge. Since Morrowind''s release this has best been exemplified by "difficulty" modifications of the game that are published as alternate Morrowinds.

If I were to modify (the high artistic integrity of) your program, I would redefine "a zombie" as "your loving Father in Heaven who wants to be with you", add the rule that you are only able to press the away key if you have a reason to resist your Father''s love, extend the map to the left and add questions, to be encountered, about what your Father in Heaven did for you when you were 30, 20, 10, 5, 1 and 0. The game would be less about the anxiety of being unable to escape the rules of the game and more about embracing the love of God. :D

Its funny, but such a polar example reminds me of "Black and White". The experience of varied emotions isn''t really explored. Anyway, the contrast makes its point.

mtdw, been reading a little too much Camus?

deClavier, thank you. that is the first insightful interpretation of my work that i have read. everyone else seems wrapped up in "can i beat it?" or "i love that i can't beat it!" your concept of reconfiguration through gained knowledge is quite interesting. though absolutely different from traditional and accepted forms of art, that might be what distinguishes "interactive art" from other forms of expression.

aside to lessbread: though i have thoroughly enjoyed all camus that i have read, what i have presented (an extremely simplified understanding of existentialism, if even that) is only a nice way to deal with highschool and other things uncontrollable. though the greater and deeper understanding of the movement contains worthwhile perspectives, my message is pure bullshit. however, it is not important what i communicated, merely that i was capable of conveying it. your response tells me this was an obvious success and was an affirmation that games can and should be accepted as an art form. thank you as well.

edit: deClavier, i reread your post and i realized i stupidly forgot the answer to your question. you /did/ apply knowledge to the game. you realized that it could not be won and stopped playing. a little heavy-handed maybe, but the game is about futility. you wouldn't be able to manipulate the game environment with that knowledge to do anything useful. all you can do is exit. and no, i'm not just improving this explination. it's what i had in mind when designing the gameplay and over feel of the series. i still think your comments apply to other messages, however. mine is only a special case.

[edited by - mtdew on May 22, 2002 3:47:21 AM]

quote: Original post by mtdew
aside to lessbread: though i have thoroughly enjoyed all camus that i have read, what i have presented (an extremely simplified understanding of existentialism, if even that) is only a nice way to deal with highschool and other things uncontrollable. though the greater and deeper understanding of the movement contains worthwhile perspectives, my message is pure bullshit. however, it is not important what i communicated, merely that i was capable of conveying it. your response tells me this was an obvious success and was an affirmation that games can and should be accepted as an art form. thank you as well.

You''re welcome. As I went through each game the "Myth of Sysiphus" quickly came to mind. Now you''ll have to move on to Beckett or maybe to Kafka - "A Gregor Samsa awoke one morning from uneasy dreams..."