quote: Original post by Yartrebo
- Quote
dont try getting things from conosle games. they use special formats for everything, but unlike pc games that tend to have tools for use, consoels dont. models could also be encrypted, use hardware optimized textures stored in an alien format, file system may not be readable by cd drive, files could be hidden instead a wad/zip style file system that is non standard, model could be split up in a million ways and stored in pieces all over the place, animation could vastly change things depending on skelatal, frame based, delta frame based, etc. ie there are way too many varibles in try to decphier console game models if you can even access all the data on the disk (pcs cant read game data session of a gdrom).
- A person



I disagree. Console models are NEVER encrypted and are in a common and simple format (Playstation GTE and GPU assembly ... well documented and easier than PC assembly). They do need a little processing to convert into usable form, but it''s the same procedure for pretty much every game, with only minor variations. Console models are also tiny, being saved in 16 bit fixed format, and usually very efficient use of textures. They''re also 100% quad + triangle meshes, which is pretty nice for my uses.

The trick is to have an emulator dump you the model. With the playstation, you can find the 3d-to-2d projection that the model underwent when being projected to the screen by hacking the GTE portion, and all the faces and textures (in screen coordinates) from the GPU portion (in the graphics plugin for most emulators). Those 2 can be used to reconstuct an original textured mesh (which can be easily animated with the skeleton system I''m using for my current project).

My particular tools were AdriPSX + the PEOPS GPU plugin (both open source).

The only way a game can prevent this is by not using software rendering (which is not particularly fast on a playstation), so I think it''s safe to assume that most games will fall to this trick. I''ve tested it with Chrono Cross and managed to get a well animated Serge model:
screenshot of Serge: (http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bj92077/serge.jpg)
modeller + source + 2 dumped models: (http://bingweb.binghamton.edu/~bj92077/modeller.zip)

The numpad is used to control the bones, INSERT, HOME, DEL, END, PGUP, PGDN constrol the position, and the arrow keys control rotation. Sorry the modeller is so hard to use, but it was never intended for release (just a tool to help me play around with 3d).

I the last 2 years i am work in a animation programs. Can i send a email for sharing experience?.. Modeller?.. not vesa found? (is for DOS? yuk!)



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"Cuando se es peon, la unica salida es la revolución"

Sure. my e-mail is Yartrebo at hotmail dot com. (weird spelling to avoid auto-spam bots from picking it out)


Yep., it''s a DOS modeller (but can be recompiled to windows or Unix if you have a compiler and Allegro). As soon as I get my script interpreter (needed for animation, since I''m using script code to do my animation sequences, not keyframes) running, I''ll take the time to download mingw32 and compile it for windows.

I have have almost 0 experience with 3d or modelling, but I do have plenty of coding experience and plenty of experience with 2d polygon modelling/animation. What type of animation programs have you written/are you writing.

I just wanted to slide in a little thing...

"I own a copy of the game, and unless I''m not getting something, that includes all the parts of the game, including the models, and I can do whatever I want in terms of personal use."

Useually, nowadays, that isnt the case. Nowadays you useually own a revokable license to use(or in this case, play) the game. You dont own it.

Eric

Taking content out of a game and using it in another game or mod based on another game/engine wether it is freeware or not is plain illegal.

[edited by - StrangeFate on May 9, 2002 10:13:08 PM]

I don''t remember signing any EULA when I bought any of my Playstation games ... PC games might have them, but I''ve never seen one on a Playstation game.

The model that I have up right now is more likely than not fair use.
- It has no effect on Chrono Cross sales ... models are quite useless to gamers without a game that uses them. If anything, more people will buy it because they heard the name and saw the model.
- It''s needed to upload a ripped model if anyone was to take my claims seriously, so it has substantial free-speech/academic value. (The ripping program itself is barely functional, and it takes a large amount of knowledge to use in its current form).
- It''s being used non-commercially.
- I''m copying a tiny fraction (< 1%) of the models in the game.




True, if I distributed a game with those models, or if I distributed the whole set of models, then it would be illegal (unless I had a system to ensure that every person who used it has a copy of the game I ripped from). Right now I''m working on the game engine, and once I have that done, I''ll worry about getting legal models.

So that''s Yartrebo@hotmail.com

Ahem, let me rephase my question:

Is there an easy, user friendly way to get polygon models from console games? Or should I
a)forget it it ain''t gonna happen?
b)get someone to do it for me and email the model to me?

Maybe there is a code or trick to get the camera in the game (in this case, Sonic Adventure 2) to work the way I want(there must be because look at some game screenshots that show the front of the character all the time), and then I can just use a image capture device? But I don''t think that will get all the info for the model to be used in Unreal. And then I don''t know how to get Unreal to recognise it. I''m totally new to doing this mod stuff you know?

Sheesh! What can I possibly do?

quote: Original post by Yartrebo
I don''t remember signing any EULA when I bought any of my Playstation games ... PC games might have them, but I''ve never seen one on a Playstation game.

You don''t have to sign or read an EULA. It''s all intellectual property.
As long as you use the stuff for yourself you sure won''t get any problems but as soon as it''s available to the public and it''s noticed you''ll have to drop it.

There have been enough mods janked by id software just for using single textures, skins or models from their games.
20th century Fox nailed an alien mod some years ago for simply using an alien model, although it was all self done. Same happened some months ago to a StarWars Q3 mod that had all original models.
Some model had to be taken down from Polycount already because it was based on an existing character (done from scratch tho) and the company holding the rights for the character didn''t like to see him running around in Q3.
Most companies won''t mind, it''s usually a homage when you do a model based on an existing character but if wanted, you could be forced to take even that stuff down.

Forget all that >1% and sales damage crap. It''s not about that, it''s just about copyrights, that stuff belongs to someone and that''s not you. In the sea of content on the net a lot of theft remains either unnoticed or tolerated, but it''s neither welcome or legal.

I''m since years in the industry and know how it works, have seen IP theft happening eversince and the always wrong alibis of clueless and missinformed rippers trying to backup their actions.


Mario V.
www.strangefate.net
www.digitalextremes.com

quote: Original post by Nadine
Ahem, let me rephase my question:

Is there an easy, user friendly way to get polygon models from console games? Or should I
a)forget it it ain''t gonna happen?

There are ways to do this, but I wouldn''t classify any of them as ''easy'' or user friendly.

quote:
b)get someone to do it for me and email the model to me?

That would be illegal.

quote:
Maybe there is a code or trick to get the camera in the game (in this case, Sonic Adventure 2) to work the way I want(there must be because look at some game screenshots that show the front of the character all the time), and then I can just use a image capture device? But I don''t think that will get all the info for the model to be used in Unreal. And then I don''t know how to get Unreal to recognise it. I''m totally new to doing this mod stuff you know?

There are systems that can rebuilt a 3d model from screenshots. These things are generally error-prone, complex, and expensive.

Y''know, it would probably be much, much easier to download milkshape and remodel sonic yourself.

Or perhaps you could download the Quake 3 version of sonic, available here: http://www.planetquake.com/polycount/downloads/index.asp?model=545

quote: Original post by Anonymous Poster
>>>
b)get someone to do it for me and email the model to me?
>>>

That would be illegal.

Not necesary, because if you take a models, we are game development, so have a models for study purpose is not strange.. in fact my project used a polycount project only for test purpose (not public).. and now i want to made this project more public, then i need to made some models.

For the legal stuff, remember, GAMES are not sold for you, LICENCES are sell for you!.. what''s the difference?.. you have the licence for play the game, not for modify, sell, take artist/programmer job... So, using a models from a game is illegal, but for study purpose (or for test), it''s not illegal.




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"Cuando se es peon, la unica salida es la revolución"