quote: Yes, both of you are absolutely right

Uh, the Anonymous Poster was being sarcastic. Many people pirate software they can afford to buy.

As outRider said, "they do it because it''s so ridiculously easy."

~CGameProgrammer( );

Just my line:

I don''t think that if you can''t download stuff anymore the people who used to download it will buy it, at my school half of my class downloads every f*cking app out there and use it, but if they had to buy it, they wouldn''t.
It''s like: if I can get it for free i''ll use it, if not, then i won''t.

Not sure counterfeit is the right term. According to webster:
"made in imitation of something else with intent to deceive"

Nobody is trying to deceive anyone with anything. They are just trying to save a buck. However, being that the average person doesnt analyze the meaning of things, but instead just try to relate it to something they already know, maybe publicly using such a stong term as counterfeit might make people associate it with money counterfeiters,drug lords, and the mob...actually put some horrible images into peoples minds. Maybe a little deciptive, but if it works. And that is the unspoken motto of the business world..."who cares if its right if it makes money"...isnt it?

quote: Original post by flame_warrior
I have an idea - So somebody has a warez copy of your game. Allow him to register at a slightly lesser price - but allow him to register. Why at a lower price ? That is because you save on printing documentation, making boxes etc etc, even transportation and cd writing costs, and not to mention even testing need not be done. Also give those who have registered new products at a lower price at the same time. This may definitely not stop piracy but at least may give some of the lost sales.

Not that original of an idea. Its called shareware, and it hasnt been any more effective at stopping piracy than anything else. If you really want to save on shipping/box costs and sell at a reduced price, just offer it for download at a reduced price.

You NEVER want to encourage people to get your product from an unauthorized third party, because then you loose all control of how it gets presented. Do you really want your product showing up on a page with a banner ad depicting child pornography? You also loose all quality control. What happens when they get that unauthorized copy and it has a virus in it. Do you really want people thinking you sell virus infested software? No matter how hard you try to convince them otherwise, they will believe you made a bad product. Any by offering a "piracy discount" you legitimize the product they just obtained and reaffirm any negative associations they may have made with your product or company.

quote: Original post by CGameProgrammer
Uh, the Anonymous Poster was being sarcastic.

Hey!!! That was no anonymous poster. That was meeeee!!! LordKronos!!!! Give me my credit, damn it!!!!

And yes, I was being sarcastic, but I''m not really sure whether or not flame_warior got it.

Hey don''t let the fight stop. I once turned in a "friend" after I found out he was a main figure in one of the big l337 groups.

Hey, the idiot was pirating my games, so I turned his l337 455 in.

quote: Original post by LordKronos
Not that original of an idea. Its called shareware, and it hasnt been any more effective at stopping piracy than anything else. If you really want to save on shipping/box costs and sell at a reduced price, just offer it for download at a reduced price.

Ok, lets get down to shareware. Shareware is where you get the full copy of the software but parts of it are probably locked. Its generally protected by some password. Isn''t that right ?? or am I wrong here ?

quote: Original post by LordKronos

You NEVER want to encourage people to get your product from an unauthorized third party, because then you loose all control of how it gets presented. Do you really want your product showing up on a page with a banner ad depicting child pornography? You also loose all quality control. What happens when they get that unauthorized copy and it has a virus in it. Do you really want people thinking you sell virus infested software? No matter how hard you try to convince them otherwise, they will believe you made a bad product. Any by offering a "piracy discount" you legitimize the product they just obtained and reaffirm any negative associations they may have made with your product or company.

I see your point, but then warez was common before and hasn''t gone anywhere but only increase in my opinion. I am sure a lot of piracy especially in the 3rd world countries will come down if atleast software are of affordable prices. Well maybe I was wrong in certain areas, but there definitely may be a better way.

Oh and by the way copyright laws of Asian countries are bad ??

Have a look at the Copyright Act and let me know what you think ?
http://www.nasscom.org/business_in_india/
http://pcquest.ciol.com/content/search/showarticle.asp?artid=31051

I don''t know what you consider strict and what you don''t, but from what I have heard, our laws are strict as hell.

quote: Original post by flame_warrior
Shareware is where you get the full copy of the software but parts of it are probably locked. Its generally protected by some password. Isn't that right ?? or am I wrong here ?

Hard to say exactly. I think traditionally, shareware didnt even use locks, rather trusted people to be honest and register if they actually used to software. Shareware authors realized everyone wasnt honest, thus started adding locks. Eventually authors realized that locks dont do anything because people just share serial numbers, thus some authors decided to release a crippled version for evaluation and give a full version to whoever purchased.

Things have become really muddy now between what is shareware and what is a demo. Its kind of a line of intuition now. If I release a not fully featured program to evaluate and allowed purchasers to download a full version, I think most people would consider that shareware. If Electronic Arts did the same thing on a game, people would call that a demo for a product sold through online distribution.

quote:
I see your point, but then warez was common before and hasn't gone anywhere but only increase in my opinion. I am sure a lot of piracy especially in the 3rd world countries will come down if atleast software are of affordable prices. Well maybe I was wrong in certain areas, but there definitely may be a better way.

Well, to some degree, I think you are right. Here in the US, if the price of Windows suddenly cost $10000 a copy, I'm sure a lot more people would start copying it. Or if we suddenly gave every american citizen a $10 million/year salary while keeping all costs the same, I bet the piracy rate would drop under 1%. But thats not going to happen immediately and it something we have no real control over.

On the other hand, if we drop prices as you suggest, we may decrease piracy, but suddenly we are working harder for the same money. Its cheaper to sell 100 products for $1000 than it is to sell 1000 products for $100. The average US salary is something like $2000/month, whereas you say in some of these countries it is more like $200 a month. A brand new AAA class game sells for $50. Are you suggesting we should drop the price to $5 so we can reduce the piracy rate to on par with the US? At that point you are losing money. Even if you sell it for $50 in the US and $5 in asia, every copy you sell in asia is actually costing you money.



[edited by - LordKronos on March 20, 2002 12:03:35 PM]

You''ll never stop pirating. Releasing add-ons with serial numbers wont work. People will always find ways around it.

Look at blizzard with their war3 beta. They release a few thousand beta copies and within DAYS someone has reversed engineered their beta servers and cracked the client. Now anyone can download the game and play on a 3rd party server. Their legal threats havent dont anything.

The best you can hope to do is make is to the average joe cant borrow your game from his friend and make a copy with EZ-cd creator. Going after the hardcore groups is foolish.

quote: Original post by LordKronos
Well, to some degree, I think you are right. Here in the US, if the price of Windows suddenly cost $10000 a copy, I''m sure a lot more people would start copying it. Or if we suddenly gave every american citizen a $10 million/year salary while keeping all costs the same, I bet the piracy rate would drop under 1%. But thats not going to happen immediately and it something we have no real control over.

On the other hand, if we drop prices as you suggest, we may decrease piracy, but suddenly we are working harder for the same money. Its cheaper to sell 100 products for $1000 than it is to sell 1000 products for $100. The average US salary is something like $2000/month, whereas you say in some of these countries it is more like $200 a month. A brand new AAA class game sells for $50. Are you suggesting we should drop the price to $5 so we can reduce the piracy rate to on par with the US? At that point you are losing money. Even if you sell it for $50 in the US and $5 in asia, every copy you sell in asia is actually costing you money.

I am not saying drop prices to 1/10th of the original. Just to be a little more practical and if even if you don''t drop prices some advantages to those who buy originals is definitely a possibility. Lastly yes if I buy originals, the support people better damn reply to my bug report.

The following probably might give an idea of another reason for not buying originals.

Let me give you an example of what happened with a game made from a local company

1) Easy access so I had no trouble contacting them.
2) When I bought the game it passed all the tests but it didn''t work - I had computer from wipro - however when I mentioned it to the local company, they told me to contact wipro support and try all I could - if all attempts failed they even promised to replace the cd.
This kind of response makes you buy originals.


Another time when I was reading some interview I came across something which was extremely ridiculuos. When the question of bugs came up he mentioned something like "we get 5000 bugs a day, how do you expect us to look at all the bug reports ?"
Now LordKornos - this is what I want to ask you - if I buy your software and never have bugs rectified why would I ever buy an original ? If I have something original they better damn listen to my report.
Sure its not possible to look at 5000 emails in a day but a reply would certainly be a good idea right ?
This kind of response doesn''t make you buy anything original.

I am sure most game companies follow the first case, but a lot of companies which make a lot of big bucks follow the second situation.