You shouldnt go after people who post cracks to your software. Even though (Im pretty sure, DMCA) that its illegal, to go after these people is wrong. When they offer your copyrighted game for others to download, then try to get it taken down (and I wish you luck it should get taken down). But you didnt write a crack, you dont own the copyright on it, and just because some ridiculous law gives you the right to go after them doesnt mean you should. Do you think its wrong for people to be able to play DVDs on any OS they want? And do you think its wrong for blind people to be able to use Ebooks? Sadly enough, when you make somthing like a crack illegal, you make these other things illegal too.

quote: How many people make copies of music for others on tape? Why not do the same for CDs? And why not do the same for CD-ROMS?
It all logically follows for these people, and telling them that half to all of the games that they own are illegal is like telling someone to stop speeding. It is a habit, and it isn't going to stop soon.

It is perfectly legal to make a copy of a tape for your friends, its called fair use. I have no idea why but it is.

[edited by - antistuff on March 19, 2002 5:26:27 PM]

[edited by - antistuff on March 19, 2002 5:27:10 PM]

quote: Original post by Snash
Most people dont think Warez is Illigal... Thats a problem.

Are these the same people that add 2+2 and get 5? If somebody does something to make money, and I get that service without spending money, I''ll assume that activity is illegal. I think these people are assuming what benefits themselves most.

quote:
All my friends thinks its okay to copy Programs/Movies, without paying for it, but they think its not okay to steal even though stealing == Warez...

They think stealing is wrong if you define stealing as the act of taking a physical property from somebody. Throw in intellectual property to the definition, and they''ll think stealing is wrong only when it pertains to physical property. This boils down to you defining ''stealing'' differently than your friends.

Its pointless discussing why people steal. If they can steal something and get away with it they will. I guess we have to figure out a way of protecting our games.

I think one of the reasons it is so rife and so open throughout much of Asia, less developed countries etc. is that they don''t have any copyright laws in those countries. Of course, International laws makes it a bit murky, but essentially, whether we like it or not - it''s not actually illegal in many of those countries.

It''s stupid, goes against all free trade laws, but walk down the main streets of many of these countries and just about every store you go into will be selling pirated cd''s, pirated dvd''s, cheap Nike t-shirt copies etc... and there''s nothing really that these companies can do to stop it. I''m sure it will change someday, but no one seems to be in a rush to get there.

Probably the best defence for software companies at the moment is to design games where you keep releasing add-ons for them. Only registered users can access the downloads (pirated copies would generally have the same serial numbers - block access, or cancel registrations to those). Sure, eventually all the addons will probably pop-up on warez sites too, but if you keep adding to your game in meaningful chunks you''ll stop many of the pirated copies upgrading. It also gives a lot of credence to the MMORPG model - if you need to log on to a server to play the game, you obviously need to first register and provide a serial number - blocking known pirated hacks should be relatively easy.

What if there were real benefits to registering your game online? maybe establishing a community where only registered users (who have a valid game serial number) can access certain parts of the site which for an RPG say, may detail more of the background story, offer competitions, provide add-ons etc.

Piracy of games isn''t going to go away anytime soon, and until copyright laws in many countries are changed, in many cases there isn''t really a lot that can be done once your game has been pirated. About the only thing you can do if you want to stop people pirating your game is take preventative steps, maybe like I mentioned above, maybe in the form of more stringent copy protection (although I''m not to keen on that, it usually just makes things difficult for the legitimate users and the hackers still manage to get around it anyway). Not a perfect solution (far from it in fact), but in the near future, that''s all we''ve got.

quote: Original post by Davaris
Its pointless discussing why people steal. If they can steal something and get away with it they will. I guess we have to figure out a way of protecting our games.

I don''t agree. Call me an optimist but I like to trust that just because someone can doesn''t necessarily mean that they will.
I do agree that we have to figure out how to protect our games. If you don''t want to make the effort, that is your issue, but Blizzard and id have done very well with games that have trivial copy prevention mechanism. Blizzard uses Battle.net not only to enhance the games it produces but also as a way to curb piracy. If you have a copied CD, you will have a copied CD key. The servers will not let you in if that CD key is already in use.
Now interestingly enough, Blizzard doesn''t allow Internet play in Starcraft unless it is through Battle.net. id does allow Internet play with Quake III Arena so CD key verification is not as stringent, yet they still sell well.
I believe both games are quality games, so maybe that is what matters more in the equation. If you make a really good game that gives people an incentive to buy your game, then you won''t have to worry about the money you lost from piracy.
Obviously it is more complicated than that, but it is an idea to start with.

quote: Original post by antistuff
It is perfectly legal to make a copy of a tape for your friends, its called fair use. I have no idea why but it is.

Sorry, I didn''t make myself clear. I was saying that yes, it is legal to make a copy of the tape because of free use. And it is legal to make a copy of music CDs (unless they have copy prevention mechanisms on them).
I was saying that for most people used to this type of freedom, copying CD-ROMs just follows the same logic as copying media these other ways.
Imagine telling someone who is used to using his VCR to make tapes of all of his favorite movies, his tape recorder to make copies of songs from the radio, his CD-R to burn mixes of his favorite songs that it is now illegal for him to do any of those things.
Does anyone remember when they had console games like NES paks and such, and letting people borrow them? I remember when I got my first PC, making copies of games wasn''t much more of an extension of that. I was just borrowing the game, only I had a copy installed on my computer that I could use anytime rather than a temporary hold on the software.

This probably boils down to a few issues:
1) Awareness - if the people don''t know they are doing wrong, then they won''t know that they should stop
2) Incentive - how many people who already are aware always say, "Well why not steal? They already jack up the prices to compensate for piracy?"
Perhaps making something available to those who have a legal copy, something somewhat enforceable like how Blizzard and id have their systems setup, might give people more incentive NOT to steal.
3) Enforcement - The main problem with piracy isn''t that major manufacturers are producing bootleg copies of the game in mass quantities (although that does happen). It is that people make copies of the games from friends and friends of friends. How does one enforce the law on regular citizens, some of which don''t know that they are doing something wrong, if stopping one doesn''t stop anything but that one person?
Legal fees alone are prohibitive to prosecuting entities that make up about a $50 loss in sales.
Perhaps the extra money that publishers charge for piracy can go towards a group which can prosecute individuals for each and every offense. Obviously you yourself won''t press charges for one game, but if they have a copy of one game, then they have copies of any number of games, and so this one organization can prosecute for hundreds or possibly thousands of dollars, giving the respective companies their cut.
Of course, the PR alone is a nightmare. Imagine headlines such as "GAME COMPANY X, OTHERS SUE 13 YEAR OLD BOY" and think about what kind of a backlash Metallica got for the same thing.


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(Gorgeous graphics)+(beautiful sound effects)+(symphonic music)+(no gameplay) != Good game

quote: Original post by Ratman
I''d be kinda flattered if someone took the time to crack a game I made

I thought the same thing once upon a time, until it happened to me. Then you say "wait...this isnt quite as flattering as I thought".

One thing I dont agree with is how companys say they lost like 50 billion from piracy when only like 20% of prople who pirate the software would have bought it in the first place, the rest just pirate it for no reason so they may have only lost 500 million not what they were saying. Dont get me wrong im still against piracy but some things like this can be missleading, and people should not have the right to have your product if they dont pay for it.

Lord Kronos is so right. I HATE seeing immature 14 year old theives (and its theft I dont care what you say) stealing games I worked hard over.
When people at work ask to borrow a game Ive bought I tell em to fck off and buy it, or try the demo. I don''t understand why people think its ok to copy games, esp if they are games coders themselves.
I was thinking of setting up a dummy warez site with published codes for all my games (and cracks) that don''t work. That way this page might come up in searches for hacks and cut down on the people who casually get stolen codes. Does anyone think this might work (or even help?)

http://www.positech.co.uk

"When people at work ask to borrow a game Ive bought I tell em to fck off and buy it, or try the demo."

Borrow or copy?
Borrowing a game isn''t, and should NOT be illegal.

-Hyatus
"da da da"

they dont borrow it unless they want to copy it, thats the problem. there are demos avilable after all...

http://www.positech.co.uk