quote: Original post by kressilac
There is no such thing as Low-Risk High-Return projects. Its a LAW of investing and doesn''t change because we''re in the game industry.

Just to clear it up there ARE Low-Risk High-Return projects, in economics we call that Cash Cows. These are the project that fund the high-risk high-return projects. Those Low-risk High-return project are in gaming industry likely to be sequels, or in software industry likely to be ongoing projects that are contracted for a certain time.



Economics is a subject that does not greatly respect one''s wishes.
-Nikita S. Khrushchev

quote: Original post by Muzikus
What I am getting at is that most of the games I play show no proof that anyone who was involved in it really had any idea of the big picture.
...
I mean no disrespect to anyone here,but I am trying to get across that you work in a industry that has not yet grasped the value of creative talent,and I think a lot of it rubs off.

And this kind of posting shows that you have no idea of "the big picture", or you''d understand why not every game is totally different from all the others. If you want to criticise games, then please, give some examples, rather than just "games these days are useless, I could do better, honest".

And another thing: The book industry is not immature, yet genre fiction (crime, horror, SF/fantasy, etc) outsells ''normal'' fiction. There''s a reason for this. It''s not because writers have no imagination. Originality is overrated.

quote: I''m also mildly refering to some posts on this board with concepts that to me sound very generic,of course this is just my opinion,but I feel they are shooting themselves in the foot from the word go.That isn''t set in stone though, and I wish anyone who actually cares about what they are doing the best of luck,but that doesn''t mean I believe that they will be a success.

The idea is: start small, work up. You appear to have all these grandiose beliefs which aren''t backed up by action or evidence. The reasoning for starting small is to prove yourself, to learn the implementational details, and to not get discouraged. These ideas you see discussed are often deliberately simple or generic.

quote: "There''s so much to do, and a lot of you are wasting time.
This is ART dagnammit! get creative or get buried."

It is also a science: if people ignore that in favour of chasing dreams and insulting anything that doesn''t appease their subjective artistic tendencies, then they''re missing the point. They are usually the ones who like to claim they "have a gift", and yet have nothing to show for it. Some gift.

[ MSVC Fixes | STL | SDL | Game AI | Sockets | C++ Faq Lite | Boost ]

Wow, Muzikus, you sure showed us how good of an idea man you are... your idea sounded like something I came up with when I was 8. Even if it was a "joke" idea, you still haven''t proven you could come up with anything, so at this point, you are probably the _worst_ game designer I''ve ever heard of (though I''ve got to admit you''ve probably got the biggest ego I''ve seen to date). All I can say is that I REALLY hope you learn to program, because that''s about the ONLY way you''ll get one of your great ideas as far as the discount bin at CompUSA.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with designing the next "Tycoon" or "Deer Hunter" clone, since with your lack of initiative and apparent lack of talent, that''s about the only game you''ll ever get the chance to "design".

This rant has been brought to you by the fact that for some reason, you can''t let this become a dignified discussion and have to return to insulting people because you have the social skills of a 10 year old. So far, the only one here that has proven they have no skill is you, so I think we''ll all pretty much stick with that belief.

The gaming industry isn''t "unfair" to you -- you''re the only one who is unfair to yourself because you believe that because you used to scribble notes about Mario Bros, that makes you some amazing designer who should get a top-level job upon coming into a company. You claim to know about business, but as someone who has literally been around the world handling business deals, I can tell that you know NOTHING about business. Someone who does respects the ideas of others, and certainly doesn''t start a flame war because of his adolescent need to feel important.

I''m sure there are talented designers out there who have real problems finding jobs. As of now, the only "talent" I''ve seen from you is that you could get your shoe wedged firmly in your mouth.

You have some vague concepts of a game rattling around in that head of yours, and you decide that that gives you the right to criticize people with some ridiculous whining session. You have no right to do anything, because you haven''t shown anyone that you know a _damn_ thing. When I said in an earlier post that you should "sh*t or get off the pot", I didn''t realize how full of it you were -- better get some ex-lax, it''s gonna take you a while.

Tacit, I agree with you on your general point -- talented people should be given the right to prove themselves. Of course, those people actually have to have TALENT, which this guy obviously doesn''t.

-Chris

"Life is not fair. Get used to it."

"The world won''t care about your self-esteem. The world will expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself."

"Flipping burgers is not beneath your dignity. Your grandparents had a different name for burger flipping. They called it opportunity."

Quoted from a speech that Bill Gates gave at a high school seminar.

Value of a good idea: 10 cents.
Implementation of the good idea: Priceless.
The Battlezone Launch Pad

quote:
by me:

Secound, it may indeed be ok if he had studyed all those things, but he doesnt talk about any of those things, to me it seems as if he took a ride in a bike, and now thinks he has great ideas for dave mirra BMX, or maybe he went to a rain forest here in Costa Rica, and after a canopy tour, he thinks he''s got the best idea for a Tarzan game.

quote:
by Muzikus:
(insert game idea here)

I rest my case.

P.S. Go see a shrink please, for the sake of everyone around you.

doesn''t God holds a copyright for all our lives???

quote: Original post by Kylotan
And this kind of posting shows that you have no idea of "the big picture", or you'd understand why not every game is totally different from all the others. If you want to criticise games, then please, give some examples, rather than just "games these days are useless, I could do better, honest".

Kylotan, this is exactly what I mean when I say a lot of you'd rather make your own conclusions.
I understand why not every game is completly different.It's because you programmers would rather emulate someone elses code than actually innovate yourselves.That's no insult either it's just a fact and rather a good decision anyway.
I'm constantly getting the impression that a lot of you feel I'm just some gaming addict with blind faith and little common sense.
This is very much a mistaken belief.I have know what I wanted to do since I was a child,and realise this is a job like any other.
As such it requires I be professional,and have professional skills.No one is just going to get a job based on hot air.
Anyway if you'd like me to expand on my statements here's a few examples of criticisms I have with a few AAA games I've played recently.

Black and White. (By the fabled guru that is PM)

1. No way of skipping through tutorials and info. (so basic)
2. Your Titan must be watched 24/7 or you run the risk of finding him eating his own shit.(or worse)
3. Multiplayer mode (The thing that would have saved this game),
is drawn out and has little to do with skill.

This is really the biggest problem and the reason it didn't live up to hype.Don't get me wrong I was very impressed with the game,
Control system was genius,excellent engine,Some nice (Useful) features,like titan reactions to mp3 e.t.c
but the whole thing was killed through losing the plot.The game is arduous and frustrating,there is no real good multiplayer uses.(Where the game would have really come into it's element).
I would have maybe just gone for a non competitive multiplay option.Where you more hang out in a online enviroment and play little subgames.Competitive multiplay would have been much better if you all had similar titans,you could have had multiple modes say competitive where you all get equally skilled and balanced titans and play based on skill,and a general hang out mode where you show off your titan,learn new skills,(maybe new dance moves e.t.c by completing certain tasks you can only do online,more rpg.)and generally chat in a cool virtual environment.

Any sport game.

I have been saying for years that sports games should be more visual and unrealistic,either come up with new sports,like airblade.Or have more visual and unrealistic elements.
Only now have I started to see games like SSX tricky and Jetsetradio future start to get this point.I quite liked the way in Davemirra 1 you had bouncy pads that rocketed you up into the air,then they ditched it in 2.
Anyone remember Speedball?.I mean things like this arn't exactly major technical issues.Football with guns,lol.e.t.c why not?,worked for wipeout.

Actually forget this,I could go on all day.
You name a game and I'll tell you why it sucks.

Even really good ones,check my reply to a GTA3 post.
Obviously there are games I do like,not many though compared to the amount developed.

quote: Original post by Crouilla
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck with designing the next "Tycoon" or "Deer Hunter" clone, since with your lack of initiative and apparent lack of talent, that's about the only game you'll ever get the chance to "design".

Don't worry people like yourself only bring a smile to my face.
My name is Alex Enchensunce.
Oh and I take it by my lack of initiative you are refering to the company I'm working all hours to float,or are you refering to my efforts to find a team on this board?

I hope I'm insulting you with more than my usual 10 year old social skills this time.

Anyway as usual I don't mind any of your replies.They are more informative than you might think,and not for the reasons you probably imagine.Please never get me wrong,I probably have more respect for any of you than you have for me.


"There's so much to do, and a lot of you are wasting time.
This is ART dagnammit! get creative or get buried."



Edited by - muzikus on January 12, 2002 12:16:14 AM

I retract my comments made in an earlier post. Muzikus is nothing but a juvenile troll.

There are nice people here at GDNet that are trying to help and guide you Muzikus, but you''ve turned this into a soapbox. I suggest you shut up and go get some work done. Then we''ll see if anything you''ve said has any value (i.e. prove me wrong).

Muzikus, some advice:

1) If you are serious about game design, get your grammar and structure under control. Otherwise you will have a hard time presenting concepts which might be good.

2) What you have posted here so far concerning your game design skills amounts to barely nothing. Your "game idea" is nothing, ideas like that are a dime a dozen. What counts are the abilites and the determination to make an idea into a working game. This means structure, mechanics and most important of all the ability to scale down until the project becomes affordable. Everyone can build cloud castles, but there´s too much vaporvare around already.

3) Finding errors in other games can sometimes be valuable, but only when you look at the consequences and the impact this knowledge can have on your game. Other than that, criticism is cheap, almost as cheap as ideas. And in many instances flaws of the game are not design issues, but simply a matter of deadlines. If christmas approaches the publisher usually doesn´t care about whether it´s done or not.
Your idea about "any sports game": Sports games mostly sell *because* of realism, the average sports games consumer wants realism, he wants players and trademarks he knows, he wants places he knows. If sports games need to get less realistic, why is EA Sports so successful?

4) Work on your attitude and your social skills. I´m not flaming, it´s a piece of advice I would take seriously. Even if you are a good designer, programmer or whatever you will probably not get the job if you insist on being an asshole. Jobs are not only about skills, it´s also about being able to fit in with a team. And the most important social skill of the game designer is to be able to communicate with other people about their ideas without insulting them or making them feel bad, and being able to bury his or her own ego. If you don´t you will never be able to deal with constructive criticism the way you should.

5) If you are a good designer, then you will have no problem writing up a portfolio of about ten short treatments or game designs . Start out with casual games like pong and breakout and work yourself up to the triple-A titles. With that portfolio you will have little trouble convincing people of your skills. And ideas are an unlimited commodity, if you are good at it you can always make more.

6) Game design has very little to do with having "the idea" or being able to spot a design flaw in another game. It´s about being able to work on a design until it fits the requirements (the target audience). You should be able to put a reason to every design deceision you made.

7) Listen to the people here, some of them have actually tried to put some well-meant advice across, some more tactful than others but there have been far less flames than should have been expected after your original post.

Graylian you're right this has developed into just a tit for tat slanging match.My original post was stating that I had realised that this was a waste of time,and that the only way to achieve anything would be through my own hard work;this just reaffirms that position.I'm sorry to have got so much interest,because it's turned into a lot of confused opinions.I need to get some cash to invest in my idea.By that I mean developing one of my design doc stage ideas and using my business model to publish it.
This was quite a bad idea on my part,I failed to realise the trouble it would be to just meet some people.I also failed to realise the attitude here,by that I mean the view of designers.
I really feel the only way to make anyone listen to you here is post your ideas.I don't know,really I could be doing better things.I know it's almost impossible to give out the right impression here,but quite frankly I don't really care anymore.
A lot of what people have said is very well meaning and true but a lot isn't applicable and show not a lot of you've actually read my posts.Anyway this is pointless,I wish I had the time to be congenial,but I can't risk my future on the nitpickings of strangers.I may well have come across as an asshole on many occasion during this thread,but I've had some stiff competition.
A few of you could do with looking at this thread again,also a lot of the reason my posts are so confused is because I'm rarely actually answering a direct question.I should have known better really I was forgeting board psychology,I should have realised the reply I'd recieve. hehe it's all in the ?

Anyway I'm sorry it was a very silly idea,the attitude I do have is mostly because of my timeframe,and I shouldn't really blame any of you for your opinions as I've really brought them on myself by not actually carefully analysing what I wanted to get across in my posts.Like I said I don't really have the time and I didn't really expect to have to post essay quality writing just to get a couple of emails.

Anyway later all
I'm a tad wiser,and for that no man should have regrets.


/action has left the building .......finally.....hopefully.....I may return but next time I'll bring a dictionary,some contracts and a draft.

"There's so much to do, and a lot of you are wasting time.
This is ART dagnammit! get creative or get buried."

And don't take this the wrong way. I'd rather you got creative








Edited by - muzikus on January 12, 2002 12:08:43 AM

Nice to see you''ve calmed down.

Good luck with your business!