This is going to be a flame-free post.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
The point of the post was that I had figured out that this forum is not the place to find the people I need,and I was just leaving a rant for posterity because of the time I had wasted,in the hope it''d maybe make a few of you think.

What exactly did you expect us to "think"? I would tell you what most of us "think" right now, but I said this would be a flame-free post. You''ve got a funny way of asking for help.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I could sit here and answer your comments,but quite frankly that would be a waste of effort.Most of you have the complete wrong end of the stick,and have failed to realise that I don''t have the time for this.

"Don''t have time for this", yet you keep posting inflammatory comments.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I really don''t give two hoots about any of your opinions,because most are based on the lack of information you have,and the inability most of you show in watching threads.

Considering you''re the one asking for help, you should "give two hoots about what any of us say".

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I never even said most of you were bad,I guess you just assume that because you probably are.(I''m sorry but I''m not going to stand here and take this)

Ahem... original quote: "It''s not even like I''m a genius or anything, it''s just that most of you don''t have a ******* clue"... Now, since you actually used the word "most" in your original post (which I just completely reread to make sure I wasn''t misjuding you -- sadly, I wasn''t), wouldn''t we take this as an attack on "most" of us?

quote: Original post by Muzikus
All I really was saying was the industry is a joke.I''m looking for people who are different,who realise this and are also fed up with the status quo.My frustration is that some of you seem quite happy with this,and show no initiative.

Since I''ll assume that anyone who doesn''t think exactly like you is part of the "some", I''ll take this as yet another attack on any of us that want to make games that we want to make -- whether they''re the most original games in the world or not. A game being "original" doesn''t make it fun (take the Jurassic Park PC game from a few years ago -- interesting physics engine, but they spent so long working on the "originality" of it, the rest of the game blew).

Now for that last sentence. Let''s see, we show no "initiative", yet you choose to talk about how great you are and show us none of your "amazing" ideas. You can''t program or create artwork effectively, yet you say you won''t learn to do so "because it''s a waste of your time". So far, you''ve shown us nothing, yet you want people to ditch their current projects and help you because of your purported "amazingness".

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I was hoping I might find some talented programmers who are actually serious about making good games,not just following pet projects and only showing interest in getting something done.

"Only showing interest in getting something done"... That has to be THE most interesting sentence I''ve ever heard in my life. You would rather have more people like you, who talk a lot and get NOTHING done?

quote: Original post by Muzikus
You really won''t get far in game development if you can''t appreciate a sense of humour.

Hmmm... Since when does "sense of humor" mean to insult everyone and expect them to help you because of your self-assessed "greatness"? You won''t get very far in ANY business if you have the attitude you do.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I would gladly play along other different circumstances,but I had to make a decision,make money and start a company, or find people I can work with and develop a short timeframe game.
I''ve run out of time,like I said before.

So, when exactly is your Chapter 11 party? With your attitude, it won''t be long.

A piece of advice. Those that call other people "Wannabes" should have something to show for themselves. So far, you''re the only real "wannabe" here -- you''re a wannabe designer. The problem is that you have built yourself up in your mind so much, that you don''t even realize your delusions.

Some advice for business (since, as you said earlier,
"you obviously have no ******* clue"):
1) You aren''t always right... no matter how much you think you are.
2) Politeness isn''t the same thing as weakness. You''ll do a lot better once you learn that.
3) Yet again: Sh*t or get off the pot. OK, a more polite version from Henry Ford: "You can''t build a reputation based on what you are going to do". I''ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you can figure it out.

Once you grow up, I wish you the best of luck (it''ll take you getting rejected a few hundred more times, but I have faith you''ll eventually get a clue).

-Chris

Hase,sandman and others.
I know you guys are trying to help,and I appreciate that.The problem is that you''re doing it in the wrong way.How many post have there been telling me stuff like I should learn scripting,
art or music e.t.c.When I''ve already said many times that I have a lot of skills,and have listed them e.t.c.This pisses me off obviously, because it shows people would rather waste thier time and mine than read the thread;and then further influence other posts by thier mistaken conclusions.
How many times have I got flamed over my "attitude",when you guys don''t even realise this is me.I''m not being bitter,I''m taking the piss.
You seem to forget that this is a post,you can''t tell how I''m expressing this.Needless to say just through concensus most of you probably think I''m shouting this.I have a big chip on my shoulder about the game industry.You ever see good will hunting?
I feel just like him in that scene where he says," I just can''t stand watching you guys mess it all up."
Honest to god truth,and this is the first time I am actually really being arrogant.
I am one of the best game designers you could possibly get,I don''t care if you believe me.I am ,fact.
Weather I can actually get my ideas developed is a different matter.I know this,I don''t need people telling me things I already know.I needed action (and I wasn''t refering to this post,obviously if I was making a last ditch plea for some talent,I wouldn''t have done it like that.)
Personally the way I saw it,I expected a few emails.
You know "hey what''s up you sound cool,want to chat about it?"
Really I could have put a better post up,but when I started reading the threads here,I really started getting the impression that this was a waste of time.
Look forget about it like I said,this was mostly a mistake on my part,but you really should realise, no1 I''m not an asshole just looking to piss on your fires,and no2 maybe if your own attitudes we''re a little different I may not have reacted like this.
The biggest problem with this board,and the industry is the lack of really great creative talent.You should welcome enthusiastic designers,don''t assume,and keep an open mind as to your own ideas.
I''m sorry but there are a lot of people wasting thier efforts here,I''ve seen some ideas posted that at best are generic and if you truly plan to make anything but a technical impression,you need people like me.
Like I said I''ve made up my mind,I''m not looking to turn you to my side.I just really have been shocked at the attitude of some people,I really would be greatful if you actually we''re helping the situation,it''s just frustrating to watch people attempt advice,when they have little comprehension of the facts.
Not to mention,the occasional I''ll flame you because everyone else is post.
I wish you all the best of luck,I''m not smarter than any of you,
there are things I could learn from you,(so far nothing in this thread though.)There is also a lot you could learn from me,and other selfless designers.Not even one of my ideas is a pet project,they reflect the market,which only a few of you seem to be in touch with.By that I mean the consumers not the publishers,
if anyone had actually bothered to talk to me I might have told you why a publisher is no longer necessary,for most projects.

Once again I motion this thread be closed,as pretty much everyone has lost the plot,including me.

Also I''ve just hit port scan city,so those of you who are attempting to |-|4k0|2 me,
you could at least change your ip every so often it does make it less obvious,not that I''m stupid enough to put anything on this network anyway.So go ahead knock yourselves out.

1. People might be more interested in your ideas if you told them what they were, rather than endlessly spouting the fact that you are an incredible designer. It doesn''t matter if you really ARE that good, no one likes a braggart.

2. Who are you to judge the ''creative talent'' of this board? How long have you actually been lurking here? I''ll bet you haven''t read a single post earlier than your join date. (except Angelstar''s post from a year ago that got mysteriously bumped)

3. If you truly ARE the greatest designer ever to grace the Earth, why not try joining in some of the discussion of peoples game projects. I would certainly appreciate the input of the greatest designer in history on my game (see the RTS thread, although you might want to check some of my older postings in order to get a better idea about my project)

Oh lord, I read everything on the first page and then skipped to here. You really should prove how great your ideas if you want people to shut up. Until the time that you actually acomplish something, even if its a simple web page that is one big design doc, you wont be able to prove to us and certainly not a multi-million dollar company that you will bring home the next big game. Probably sounds like a flame, sorry if it does but thats the truth. And I resent the fact that you say I dont have a ******* clue. And the industry you so obviously hate at the moment may be a bear, but it is still something you''ll have to put up with if youre ever going to make headway. Id say more but I''m about to go back class(college) where I plan on applying myself fully in the efforts of learning something that will further my own designs.

I kindof wonder why I am replying, since you didn''t even reply to my post. I''m probably one of the few people that''s actually read all of your posts in this thread, and all the others, but I''m easier to ignore because I''ve tried (as I always do) to refrain from outright flaming. But for the sake of the members of the community I will respond.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I am one of the best game designers you could possibly get,I don''t care if you believe me.I am ,fact.

You are not. Fact. I can name at least 5 people from these boards that I would rather give time and money to than I would you.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
Weather I can actually get my ideas developed is a different matter.

It is not a different matter. It is the same matter. Ideas without implementations are just ideas. They are the patent gathering dust on a forgotten shelf in a forgotten room of a forgotten company. The quote has been used before: it''s 1% inspiration, 99% perspiration. You''ve only got 1% of the equation if you can''t get the ideas developed.
You have no idea of the scope of technical difficulties you will find along the way of developing a game.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
Personally the way I saw it,I expected a few emails.
You know "hey what''s up you sound cool,want to chat about it?"

Why were you expecting e-mails? This is a discussion board, an open forum, to REPLACE the annoyance of mailing lists and e-mails. We don''t do e-mails here, we just post our ideas for everyone to pick apart and scrutinise. You seem to be unaware of the principles of the message board.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
The biggest problem with this board,and the industry is the lack of really great creative talent.You should welcome enthusiastic designers,don''t assume,and keep an open mind as to your own ideas.

We do. We actually discuss ideas here all the time, but you haven''t taken the time to even check. There''s amazing creative talent here, some truly gifted artists, writers, musicians, programmers and game designers. Lets name a few: Null_Pointer, Kylotan, Wavinator, Dwarfsoft, Nazrix, SunandShadow, Fantasy Edge... and those are just the first that come to mind after my absence of several months.
They have all participated in prolonged, sometimes heated, many times very productive discussion on various aspects of game development.
But somehow you''ve managed to miss all that.

Of course we welcome enthousiastic designers, as long as they are willing to discuss design! You, however, do not seem to be.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I''m sorry but there are a lot of people wasting thier efforts here,I''ve seen some ideas posted that at best are generic ...

Wasting their efforts? Last time I checked, those people were very much enjoying that "wasting of their effort". And yes, there are some generic ideas here, as there are a lot of newer game designers that come here for advise. Do we shoot them down? Well, I for one try not to, I try to be constructive. I''ve also seen some pretty good ideas floating by, with some very good discussions on the technical problems surrounding those ideas.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
..and if you truly plan to make anything but a technical impression,you need people like me.

That''s where it falls down - most of us here don''t care much for the final mass-market appeal of what we are discussing. We''re simply talking about making games that appeal to us. You may find it a "technical impression", I just find it a highly stimulating discussion.

quote: Original post by Muzikus
I really would be greatful if you actually we''re helping the situation,it''s just frustrating to watch people attempt advice,when they have little comprehension of the facts.

What situation? I see no situation. Where''s the fire? What are "the facts"? "The facts" are your extremely limited view of what''s good and what''s not...

As long as you refuse to accept that you CAN be wrong, and sometimes other people have better ideas than you do, you will never lead a team. You will never even become a significant contributor to a team, because people will simply not put up with your authoritarian attitude. If you were the one ponying up the cash, maybe, you could get a few guys to stick around long enough to produce a technically weak, mediocre game with a good premise and terrible execution (John Romero - Daikatana, case in point).

This is an open community. Most of us here have no financial interest in Game Design or Development. We''re even LESS likely to put up with authoritarian "I am the best" type attitudes, especially when they are completely without backing-up from your other activity in the community.


People might not remember what you said, or what you did, but they will always remember how you made them feel.

So, I''ll Bite What is this great revelation. You have a ton of money to share if some will cottel to your Tyrany?
You Know, There is not a musician who does not get influence
from another, not a scientist who does not expound on anothers
thoughts or Ideas.
I went through at least 1000 very, well developed ideal
business plans until I found what would work for my Co. You
still keep saying nobody gets it.
Just because you now feel totaly Feel frustrated tell us what the deal is. You can always e-mail me if you choose but I
must say at 20 you got along way and a hard way if you think people will turn around. Without true reconciliation. you don''t
say your sorry and then kik them in the teeth. If this was to be how you would work with Programmers then you will be left holding the bag.
Remember that since you gave your name it will be very hard for many to trust you. I would like to see Publishers treat all
of us as the Professionals that most of us are and would like to be. Did you enter a forum somewhere and tell all the Artist that they suck cuz they did not read your brain and GIVE YOU what
You wanted without telling them what it is you want?
Blow -Off is very, very Unprofessional. It seems you have no faith in your vision. If I was to e-mail you and we talked would you realy be open to the fact that your plan has at least 1000 flaws and that most of what you would LIKE to do can''t be done or Has been put through the process on paper and is found
To be unrealistic do to technology itself not being what you think it is? Remember ANTHING YOU CAN THINK OF HAS MOST
LIKELY BEEN THOUGHT OF OR DONE BEFORE. The key is to learn from others and to try and find a way to do it a little differenly
(BETTER?). But you can''t do Crap without TRUST IN THOSE AROUND
YOU. Even if you get BURNED and you will at least a time or to.
You may not find the people you seek here, but again remeber alot of people use other forums than here and many
aliases.and will pick you out of the crowd and say "hey this is theJerk from **** Forum and they will either flame you all over again or laugh you out of that forum as well. Let us Have a true Honest answer and Idea from you and NO BASHINNG you might find in the end you will get or be closer to the help you seek!

quote: Original post by Muzikus
This pisses me off obviously, because it shows people would rather waste thier time and mine than read the thread;and then further influence other posts by thier mistaken conclusions.

well, you don't really care what any of us say...

quote: How many times have I got flamed over my "attitude",when you guys don't even realise this is me.I'm not being bitter,I'm taking the piss.

ok, so being an asshole is a personality trait and not a decision

quote: You ever see good will hunting? I feel just like him in that scene where he says," I just can't stand watching you guys mess it all up."

here's my quote: "i just can't stand watching you bitch about us messing it up when you aren't even trying yourself."

quote: I am one of the best game designers you could possibly get,I don't care if you believe me.I am ,fact.

i am one of the best (if not THE best) at everything , but i refuse to show any proof.

quote: Personally the way I saw it,I expected a few emails.
You know "hey what's up you sound cool,want to chat about it?"

true, true... i just love working on someone else's pet project when they (a) treat everyone else like dirt and (b) refuse to call it a "pet project" just because they think it is so much better than everything else ever made.

quote: The biggest problem with this board,and the industry is the lack of really great creative talent.You should welcome enthusiastic designers,don't assume,and keep an open mind as to your own ideas.

we're not the industry, we're just some people who like to make (or at least discuss the making of) video games. as far as creative talent goes, how can you tell? have you tried out any of the games or demos from this website? have you had any actuall discussions with anyone, or are you just into this trolling? as far as i know, enthusiastic designers are welcome here, if they would rather discuss game design than everyone else's lack of talent. YOU assume; YOU are closed-minded.

quote: I'm sorry but there are a lot of people wasting thier efforts here,I've seen some ideas posted that at best are generic and if you truly plan to make anything but a technical impression,you need people like me.

those people are mainly trying to learn, so they can actually make their kick-ass game when they eventually design it.

quote: I just really have been shocked at the attitude of some people,I really would be greatful if you actually we're helping the situation,it's just frustrating to watch people attempt advice,when they have little comprehension of the facts.

we must assume you are using an alternate version of "the facts." at least, until you can produce your world-changing game without learning something useful and changing your attitude. until then, you are blowing hot air. and, before you complain of others' attitudes, you should read your first post (actually, read all of them) and pretend you are anyone but yourself. this might allow you to see what a troll you are.

quote: Not to mention,the occasional I'll flame you because everyone else is post.

well, that's fair i guess; personally i think the internet was set up mainly for being rude to strangers.

quote: there are things I could learn from you,(so far nothing in this thread though.)

heh heh, you are very thickheaded...

quote: There is also a lot you could learn from me,and other selfless designers.Not even one of my ideas is a pet project,they reflect the market,which only a few of you seem to be in touch with.By that I mean the consumers not the publishers,
if anyone had actually bothered to talk to me I might have told you why a publisher is no longer necessary,for most projects.

(1) look up "selfless" in the dictionary.
(2) if it is you against the world, with no company, publisher, or any other help, it is indeed a pet project.
(3) why is a publisher no longer necessary?
(4) you say you are the only one with an "original" idea, yet you say you are in touch with the "consumers"... this makes no sense... the masses don't like originality, this is why so many games are just slightly-better-looking versions of whatever game sold last year. and you know what? these "consumers" you claim to be in close touch with love it! the market is dumb: on the slim chance that you ARE a great and original game designer (although i doubt it because of the way you express yourself), the "market" will hate you, or worse yet, not even notice you. truly original games are great as far as satisfaction goes, but you will not become rich on it. i didn't mean to make (4) so long, but basically you don't know jack about the "market".

quote: Also I've just hit port scan city,so those of you who are attempting to |-|4k0|2 me, you could at least change your ip every so often it does make it less obvious,not that I'm stupid enough to put anything on this network anyway.So go ahead knock yourselves out.

heh heh, do you think gamedev.net people are trying to steal your awesome game design or something? well, i have a suggestion for you which has little to do with your career as a game designer, but it is good advice nonetheless: wear at least four layers of tinfoil over your entire head at all times. when the port scanning doesn't work, i wouldn't be surprised if we all dropped our pet projects in an attempt to suck your game idea directly from your brain via satellite.

--- krez (krezisback@aol.com)

Edited by - krez on January 14, 2002 2:43:59 PM

Can someone close this thread?

It''s entertaining and all, but it''s not going anywhere.

I wanna'' ride on the pope mobile.