ChaosEngine, on 24 Jun 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:
{moderated} A campaign based on racism, fear and ignorance.

It was based on democracy and independence. People didn't like Merkel telling them what to do. It's not that 51% of the country's racist...

Oh yeah, and slight side effect the xenophobic {moderated} didn't think of, the Northern Ireland peace agreements are now voided, as the UK staying part of the EU was a non-negotiable condition.

If anything actually comes from this in the next decade I'll send you $2000 usd over paypal. It won't.

Not to mention the families across the EU that now have to figure out whether one of the parents can no longer live and work in the country they call home.

This isn't going to happen. Visas will be granted (immigration and work), and life will go on. Europe was pretty functional before the EU, it would even be fine if it collapsed.

{moderated profanity against various groups}

So democracy is only good if it goes your way? Just because someone voted another way doesn't mean they're a racist scumbag. I don't know too much about his policies, but from his campaign it seems like

Points system used to select migrants with skills and attributes needed to work in the country
Immigration capped at 50,000 people a year for skilled workers
Five-year ban on immigration for unskilled workers
Five-year wait before migrants can claim benefits

Which seems pretty reasonable. He's just against low-skill immigration from ANY country, and race has no factor into it.

Unlikely. Sure you won't be as integrated with the EU, but that itself can give you some leverage over it. Whether the UK's in the EU or not, it's going to want the UK's money to continue functioning, and will be willing to give special concessions to make sure that happens.

Yes, if we ask the EU very nicely, and they don't feel too inclined to make an example of us to deter other nations from leaving, then in a few years we might get a deal that's worse than the one we've just thrown away.

{moderated} A campaign based on racism, fear and ignorance.

Oh yeah, and slight side effect the xenophobic {moderated} didn't think of, the Northern Ireland peace agreements are now voided, as the UK staying part of the EU was a non-negotiable condition.

Not to mention the families across the EU that now have to figure out whether one of the parents can no longer live and work in the country they call home.

{moderated insults against assorted groups}

You don't live in the UK

So Its easy for you to take a one-sided look at this whole thing and brand the leave campaign as racist and fearmongering

For me like i wrote in my earlier post, there were merits and demerits both ways

but what tipped it over for was force-fitting such diverse economies together.

thus some countries end up being net contributors to the tune of £billions while others are net recipients to the tune of £billions

Yes migrants make massive positive contributions to the economy - but there was also massive strain on public services and also people moving solely for benefit which either didn't exist in their own country or their country's benefit was massively less than the UK.

This is not racism but practical facts

I guess both UK and EU will rule something about that, 2 years are more than enough.

Sure, but would you want to spend 2 years with that hanging over you?

As it stands, today, if you aren't from the EU and aren't earning over £35Kpa you can and will be removed from the country; I know of two teachers this has already hit.

For reference, for 2014;
Mean pay : £29, 172
Median pay : £23,556

So, if an non-EU member was married to someone from the UK today one of you would have to be earning over £35Kpa for that person to be able to enter in to the country - someone I work with had to prove his income so that his wife was allowed entry as she was from a non-EU state.

Depending on what is agreed you could end up with the same treatment for people currently from the EU; while you wouldn't be kicked out there is a chance you could be refused entry again if, for example, you went on holiday.

Of course someone people I know, from the EU, are considering leaving anyway; I don't blame them, I'm not sure I'd want to stay in a country where it feels like 1/3 of the population don't want you to be here...

I struggle to see any positive side to this result, it's more a question of how terrible it will turn out to be.

Wait until Merkel gives away visa-free travel to 75 million Turks. Then you'll thank Nigel on your knees...

Visa-free travel ( for short term visit ) isn't same as EU membership recklessly granted to latest member states. And UK has never been part of Schengen visa regime, so they were not affected at all of these "75 million Turks" horror story, all this "oh my God, Turks are coming" was complete nonsense for Brexit.

There will not be the flock/horde/run/invasion as expected if Turks get visa-free travel , but if it will make you happy Turkish president is trying to blackmail EU so it may not even be possible in short/mid term.

PS : It's over 80 million

Time to think to re-evaluate the three more spoken of EU (aka the three official languages of EU). But I doubt there will be any changes (Spanish and Italian are not so spoken outside Spain and italy).

I struggle to see any positive side to this result, it's more a question of how terrible it will turn out to be.

Wait until Merkel gives away visa-free travel to 75 million Turks. Then you'll thank Nigel on your knees...

Is there a particular reason why? Or is this just racism and fearmongering? Bear in mind I actually live in an area which has quite a large number of turkish immigrants.

"Mr" Erdogan is the last man that EU needs at all. Well, "Mr" Erdogan is that kind of man that the entire worlds do not needs too.

Nothing against Turkish people...

I struggle to see any positive side to this result, it's more a question of how terrible it will turn out to be.

Wait until Merkel gives away visa-free travel to 75 million Turks. Then you'll thank Nigel on your knees...

Visa-free travel ( for short term visit ) isn't same as EU membership recklessly granted to latest member states. And UK has never been part of Schengen visa regime, so they were not affected at all of these "75 million Turks" horror story, all this "oh my God, Turks are coming" was complete nonsense for Brexit.

There will not be the flock/horde/run/invasion as expected if Turks get visa-free travel , but if it will make you happy Turkish president is trying to blackmail EU so it may not even be possible in short/mid term.

That's pretty naive. Merkel invites them, and then they end up in the UK. And Erdogan is winning his blackmail, so Merkel will keep giving in, to the point of Turkey joining the EU.

Luckily every other country will leave, so Merkel and Erdogan can be happy together.

I guess both UK and EU will rule something about that, 2 years are more than enough.

Sure, but would you want to spend 2 years with that hanging over you?

As it stands, today, if you aren't from the EU and aren't earning over £35Kpa you can and will be removed from the country; I know of two teachers this has already hit.

For reference, for 2014;
Mean pay : £29, 172
Median pay : £23,556

So, if an non-EU member was married to someone from the UK today one of you would have to be earning over £35Kpa for that person to be able to enter in to the country - someone I work with had to prove his income so that his wife was allowed entry as she was from a non-EU state.

Depending on what is agreed you could end up with the same treatment for people currently from the EU; while you wouldn't be kicked out there is a chance you could be refused entry again if, for example, you went on holiday.

Of course someone people I know, from the EU, are considering leaving anyway; I don't blame them, I'm not sure I'd want to stay in a country where it feels like 1/3 of the population don't want you to be here...

When the UK parliament will realize they could lose millions of workers they will lower the £35K limit.... That's the same kind of reason Swiss does not expels millions of non-Swiss workers..

thus some countries end up being net contributors to the tune of billions while others are net recipients to the tune of billions

Yes migrants make massive positive contributions to the economy - but there was also massive strain on public services and also people moving solely for benefit which either didn't exist in their own country or their country's benefit was massively less than the UK.

This is not racism but practical facts

Those contributions are small compared to the value of being a member of the single market. And if we want to be part of the single market, we'll still have to make those contributions to the EU, except we won't get any rebates, or say in how it is spent.

The majority of the strain on public services is a result of chronic underfunding. Any strain placed on them by immigrants is more than compensated for by the contribution those immigrants make towards them, either from paying tax or by actually working in them.