Since 2000, there have been about 400000 Americans killed by gun violence domestically. (source)

Over 60% of those 'gun violence' accounts are suicides. If Islamic extremists killed themselves, people wouldn't be afraid of them. :wink:

(Edit: Uh, I mean kill themselves only, without taking others with them)

Also, gun homicides are usually done with a goal in mind (this is an assumption on my part): Killing a specific person, or killing someone unintentionally/intentionally on the way to meeting an object.

Terrorism is done intentionally to cause terror, so ofcourse each terrorist-caused death will, body for body, cause more hysteria than overall general gun-related homicides, most of which we never even hear about.

If you are talking about done-for-the-impact gun crimes (like mass school shootings), those are a very real cause of concern in the USA. Your average shooting doesn't get near the media attention that terrorist attacks (whether Islamic or school-shootings) get.

I'm not saying gun violence isn't a problem - just that bloating the numbers doesn't help bring clarity and unity on a topic (I'm calling it 'bloating' because self-inflicted suicides and terrorist attacks aren't equivalent threats, hysterically or legitimately).

I mean, how's it help for me to (accurately) say that 480,000 people in the USA are killed every year from smoking (including >40,000 from second-hand smoke), and then saying

"Figuring out the real problem here is left as an exercise for the reader" ?

You seem to be implying that because there are bigger problems (by USA fatalities) that Islamic extremism isn't a problem (or rather, isn't a "real" problem - 'real' being a word you define yourself to mean whatever your argument wants it to mean).

By that same logic I could (inaccurately) say that because more people die by smoking every year (480,000 smoking vs 12,000 gun homicides), gun violence isn't a "real" problem. Or, you know, there can be more than one problem affecting the world. :wink:

Anybody hear actually read The Quran?

I have. Most of the Islam lovers here seem to have never read a single verse of it.

Anybody hear actually read The Quran?

I have. Most of the Islam lovers here seem to have never read a single verse of it.

*fear induced babble*

Praise be! If a book says they are evil, then we must nuke them immediately! I mean we know they are all brainwashed puppets with no mind of their own or freewill! Quick, let's demonize a whole group and increase Islamaphobia in the US. Next we can demonize gamers because media says they are evil. There are so many cults and groups we must stop because text says they are evil!

*end fear induced babble*

I'm not saying gun violence isn't a problem - just that bloating the numbers doesn't help bring clarity and unity on a topic (I'm calling it 'bloating' because self-inflicted suicides and terrorist attacks aren't equivalent threats, hysterically or legitimately).

I disagree that including suicide victims is "bloating" the numbers, but I don't really want to derail this with a discussion of gun availability and suicide rates.

Even if we reduce the figures by 60%, that's still 160000 people killed by gun violence in the US or 45 times the number of people killed by terrorist attacks. If you leave out the statistical aberration of 9/11, you are 320 times more likely to be killed by gun violence than a terror attack in the US.

By that same logic I could (inaccurately) say that because more people die by smoking every year (480,000 smoking vs 12,000 gun homicides), gun violence isn't a "real" problem. Or, you know, there can be more than one problem affecting the world. :wink:

Except that huge efforts are made to stop people from smoking. There is plenty of legislation around where you can smoke, how tobacco companies can advertise, etc. The problem is recognised as the serious issue it is.

Meanwhile, no one has done a goddamn thing to prevent gun violence (and just because some of those were suicides doesn't make it any better).

But that was just an aside.

The point is that America has done far more harm to the rest of the world (in the name of the "war on terror") than Islamic terror has done to it. Hell, the war on terror has had a greater cost to American lives than 9/11.

I'm not saying Islamic terror isn't a problem, I'm saying that it's nowhere near the problem it's made out to be.

There are far more pressing issues, but none of them are as sexy as terrorism. None of them get votes or sell ads on cable news. Meanwhile, your country's infrastructure is slowly starting to rival that of the third world with water problems, a crumbling highway system.... oh and nuclear weapons that are controlled via technology that was outdated in the 90s

Maybe instead of spending billions to kill brown people in far off countries, and giving ISIS more recruitment material, you could build a few more schools or hospitals at home.

More people have been killed by oppressive governments than by private gun ownership by something like 10,000 to 1. Private gun ownership is a fundamental human right. Europeans should have preserved that right because now they are indefinitely going to be confronted by Jihadists who do have guns. By the way, banning or restricting guns does not stop the criminal from acquiring them. The vast majority of murders by gun in the USA are committed by people who are illegally possessing a gun. Punishing the innocent gun owner for the crimes of a few is loaded with injustices. In predominately Islamic neighborhoods in Europe, there are many illegal guns. That is one of many reasons why those Islamic neighborhoods are called No Go Zones.

Even if we reduce the figures by 60%, that's still 160000 people killed by gun violence in the US or 45 times the number of people killed by terrorist attacks. If you leave out the statistical aberration of 9/11, you are 320 times more likely to be killed by gun violence than a terror attack in the US.

Muslims are 1% of the population. Adjusted for that, they're extremely over-represented. That "gun violence" number also includes passable shootings as well (self defense, police killing criminals, etc).

Except that huge efforts are made to stop people from smoking. There is plenty of legislation around where you can smoke, how tobacco companies can advertise, etc. The problem is recognised as the serious issue it is.

... Those apply to guns as well.

I'm not saying Islamic terror isn't a problem, I'm saying that it's nowhere near the problem it's made out to be.

Out of all the problems you listed, none even begin to compare the tens of millions of people locked away in North Korean death camps, which requires a war to end. This is something anti-war people consistently fails to address. The Kim dynasty is worse than Hitler/Nazis, but it's tolerated because we don't want to get our hands dirty.

That is one of many reasons why those Islamic neighborhoods are called No Go Zones.

But 3Ddreamer, there are no no-go zones in Europe.

There are over 100 technically illegal Sharia Law courts in Britain, over 120 in France, and over 180 in Germany. Berlin, Germany has over 1.5 million Islamists in the German capital. London just elected its first Islamist major. Half the suburbs of Paris are dominated by Islam. Islamists will be the majority in Sweden by 2030.

Traitors welcome invaders. Anybody choked on your Red Pill yet?

Yes because God only forbid that a non Christian should hold a position of power right? Ultimately that's where this line of argument is going.

This actually should be the case in minority-Muslim countries. A large portion of Muslims support things like Sharia law which are largely incompatible with Western ideals. They also tend to form very insular non-assimilating communities, so I can bet that now London will never get a non-Muslim representative again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

Look at American history, Americans are always scared of the group they are at war with and that fear lasts years after the war ends. Fear is a natural reaction to attacks. Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, Japanese Americans were put in internment camps out of fear they were Japanese spies. German Americans were thought to be Nazi spies or former Nazis in hiding. Russian Americans were thought to be undercover KGB during the Cold War. Throughout documented history there are stories and accounts of people being suspicious of other people as being spies for the group the US was at war or in conflict with. Terrorist are attacking the US (as well as other countries) and the ones taking credit for it are identified as Islam extremists which unfortunately makes people weary and suspect anyone practicing Islam to be possible terrorists (sleeper cells) or spies for them to coordinate an attack. Every attack just builds that fear and paranoia, 9/11, Boston Marathon bombing, San Bernardino Shooting, etc. If history is an indicator, wait a few decades and a new group will come out of the woodwork for the US to fear and Islamaphobia will be a distant memory.

Yea that's a fact, and I'm sure that soon people will even forget that Islamaphobia is a thing. Thing is that it's leading to a lot of irrationality, like the Italian professor who was taken off a flight for questioning because he was doing differential equations. Now I don't think that there's anyone here who doesn't find that to be straight up irrational. But your point is valid.

More people have been killed by oppressive governments than by private gun ownership by something like 10,000 to 1. Private gun ownership is a fundamental human right. Europeans should have preserved that right because now they are indefinitely going to be confronted by Jihadists who do have guns. By the way, banning or restricting guns does not stop the criminal from acquiring them. The vast majority of murders by gun in the USA are committed by people who are illegally possessing a gun. Punishing the innocent gun owner for the crimes of a few is loaded with injustices. In predominately Islamic neighborhoods in Europe, there are many illegal guns. That is one of many reasons why those Islamic neighborhoods are called No Go Zones.

Yes the us against them argument. Which basically will ultimately boil down to white guys vs brown guys, the way you are going.

Even if we reduce the figures by 60%, that's still 160000 people killed by gun violence in the US or 45 times the number of people killed by terrorist attacks. If you leave out the statistical aberration of 9/11, you are 320 times more likely to be killed by gun violence than a terror attack in the US.

Muslims are 1% of the population. Adjusted for that, they're extremely over-represented. That "gun violence" number also includes passable shootings as well (self defense, police killing criminals, etc).

Except that huge efforts are made to stop people from smoking. There is plenty of legislation around where you can smoke, how tobacco companies can advertise, etc. The problem is recognised as the serious issue it is.

... Those apply to guns as well.

I'm not saying Islamic terror isn't a problem, I'm saying that it's nowhere near the problem it's made out to be.

Out of all the problems you listed, none even begin to compare the tens of millions of people locked away in North Korean death camps, which requires a war to end. This is something anti-war people consistently fails to address. The Kim dynasty is worse than Hitler/Nazis, but it's tolerated because we don't want to get our hands dirty.

That is one of many reasons why those Islamic neighborhoods are called No Go Zones.

But 3Ddreamer, there are no no-go zones in Europe.

There are over 100 technically illegal Sharia Law courts in Britain, over 120 in France, and over 180 in Germany. Berlin, Germany has over 1.5 million Islamists in the German capital. London just elected its first Islamist major. Half the suburbs of Paris are dominated by Islam. Islamists will be the majority in Sweden by 2030.

Traitors welcome invaders. Anybody choked on your Red Pill yet?

Yes because God only forbid that a non Christian should hold a position of power right? Ultimately that's where this line of argument is going.

This actually should be the case in minority-Muslim countries. A large portion of Muslims support things like Sharia law which are largely incompatible with Western ideals. They also tend to form very insular non-assimilating communities, so I can bet that now London will never get a non-Muslim representative again.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1510866/Poll-reveals-40pc-of-Muslims-want-sharia-law-in-UK.html

Right, cause the mayor of London is implementing Sharia law tonight. /sarcasm If anyone actually took the liberty to read a little bit about the mayor, he's already got a fatwah on his head for voting in favor of gay marriage. Yep. There's your Sharia law mayor. Now I'm not actually from London, so people from London could probably comment more on his sharing platforms with pro ISIS speakers, but as far as I can tell, he's a human rights lawyer who doesn't strike me as trying to impose non-Western ideals on the electorate (who aren't all Muslim and are just as rational as anyone on this thread). This isn't ok, but Donald Trump, who has really checkered and racist history himself, is ok by some people. I see clear logic in this!

It's not about what the Mayor wants to impliment, it's about what his constituants want to impliment, and what they'll be more emboldened to push for next election cycle.

Who mentioned anything about racism, and why do you think Muslism are all brown?

Islam is NOT a race. Let's be clear about that. It is a predatory and invasive civilization.

It's not about what the Mayor wants to impliment, it's about what his constituants want to impliment, and what they'll be more emboldened to push for next election cycle.

Exactly ! Why do westerners want to massively import a system of ideology with so many values opposed to freedom, democracy, and other western values?

It should be obvious that The Far Left is a political ally of Islam. Ironically, Islam severely persecutes non-Muslims, gays, women, and dissenters. Why the Left would ally with their natural enemy is beyond me.