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Making Indie game with advanced Animations or AI

Started by May 21, 2015 05:19 PM
8 comments, last by Norman Barrows 9 years, 7 months ago

I want to make a sanbox open world game like Minecraft and Mount&blade alone, and believe i can really make such a game because I was told Minecraft was made by 1 person, and Mount&blade was made by 2. I want to know whether I should make my own game engine, or choose one of the

game engines Unity, UE4 or CryEngine. Can these engines be used to make games like Die by the Sword, Minecraft, Mount&blade, Bloodborne, FFXIV, Ultima Online, and/or Assassins Creed 4 Black Flag? I've been told developing your own game engine will reduce lag in the final game, is this true? I want to make a realistically small game inspired by the previously mentioned game, but I've discovered Animations are not like I was hoping they would be. I want obstacles, uneven ground and character tiredness to alter the characters' animations using some algorithms that can also be used to animate robots similar to Big Dog or Atlas (both made by Boston Dynamics). Where can I find or learn how to make such algorithms? I need appropriate literature and video tutorials, and would also like to know if there are any game engines, such as Unity, UE4 or CryEngine, that support such animations. Should I choose C++, C# or some other language for this project. I was hoping to release a randomly generated sandbox open world game with realistic physics (using real mathematical formulas, tables and charts in real physics books and chemistry books) that has very little content at first and where players create the environment, and if people buy it make a living by developing new content, mostly new species and materials such as wood and ore types. It will be a PC, Mac, PS4-5 and XBox One-successor game. How much time do you believe or know I will need to achieve this if i begin learning now? If I can realistically achieve this, what game development literature, web sites and software are recommended for me?

I was told Minecraft was made by 1 person

Minecraft STARTED OUT being made by one person. Then Notch hooked up with some friends to add people, started working with Mojang, got lots of money from early alpha builds.

By the time 1.0 was released in 2011 came around and it was released for real, the credits file was at 16 people. Four years * probably 10 people at average = 40 work years.

At a guess, today the game probably has around 500 to 800 work years behind it for the PC version, plus several hundred more considering all the ports.

It started as a single person, but the game you know today would be impossible for a single person, even if they dedicated their entire lifetime to it alone.

Can these engines be used to make games like...

Yes, in a general sense.

The games you listed have large development teams, anywhere from double-digit to triple-digit numbers of people. And many have multi-year timeframes. Big games have total development times that are not measured in work-years, but in work-centuries.

As an individual you will not be creating a game like Ultima Online or Assassins Creed 4. You do not have the time in your lifetime to create all those assets, all the models, all the animations, all the code, all the audio, all the effects, maintain all the computer networks, and all the rest.

You can leverage the tools to create games quickly. You can get the pieces you don't have by working with collaborators or by buying/licensing them, and there are many resources available at very low cost or even free.

So with the caveat that you only have a small number of work-hours you can invest in the project --- rather than work-centuries --- you can build a game with similar elements using the tools.

Just be sure to scale your work appropriately. Something you spend several months on -- perhaps 60 work hours -- will be at a radically different scale than a major game developed with 200,000 work hours (100 work years).

Where can I find or learn how to make such algorithms?

The typical source is a college degree in Computer Science.

Some people take a different route of self education, but that is more difficult. A school will require you to study topics you would not study on your own, will require a minimum depth on topics that you don't like and would not study on your own. If you want to work professionally, you are not in a vacuum and these days most of your peers will have college degrees, so if you don't your application is far less likely to get through the HR filters (unless you have published games in your history, but then you've got a chicken-and-egg problem).

There is much to learn. After 4 years of schooling focused in Computer Science, the first job is still entry level. That is to say, four years of study is enough to qualify you as a beginner. It is not until another five to ten years of full-time experience that individuals are considered to have mastered the craft.

And all those years are only the code. Not modeling, not animation, not design. These crafts take similar years to master.

If a computer science college program is not available right now, start by learning whatever you can, wherever you can. Books aimed for first-year and second-year college students are a good start, since online tutorials are hit and miss. Search the forums for frequent book recommendations on specific topics. There are book lists for learning C++, learning C#, and learning other things.

... to know if there are any game engines, such as Unity, UE4 or CryEngine, that support such animations. Should I choose C++, C# or some other language for this project...

Download Unity and UE4 and try them out. One is focused on C#, the other C++. Blender is one of the best free 3D modeling and animation packages out there, so pull it down as well. For image editing, GIMP is the best free program.

Try them out, experiment with them, and learn as you go.

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Hi. Reading your post I assume you have great ambitions and aim high.
My advice would be to start small, create and finish small games, see where your passion and talent lies and take the next step.

Decide which programming language you use, 3rd party engine yes/no.

If you're a starter, then creating a game like minecraft or black flag is not realistic (yet).
Take it step by step, good luck

Crealysm game & engine development: http://www.crealysm.com

Looking for a passionate, disciplined and structured producer? PM me

(And a bit of nostalgia, I remember when Blender was not free. The company that owned it was going bankrupt, and they were willing to release it as open source if the community would buy it as an asset from bankruptcy liquidation for $100,000. I figure I own 0.025% of Blender when it was released. You're welcome. )

Start with pong.

What will you make?

I want to know whether I should make my own game engine, or choose one of the
game engines

use a game engine if possible to save time.


I've been told developing your own game engine will reduce lag in the final game, is this true?

not necessarily. full access to source code simply means you have the ability optimize anything required. but all the engines mentioned are designed to do what the do very well, and very fast.


I want obstacles, uneven ground and character tiredness to alter the characters' animations using some algorithms that can also be used to animate robots similar to Big Dog or Atlas (both made by Boston Dynamics). Where can I find or learn how to make such algorithms?

true procedural animations don't seem to be that common yet. so instead of a single procedural stand/walk/run/sprint in any direction animation, you typically have separate walk, run, and sprint animations for each direction ( 3 speeds times 8 movement directions = 24 animations, plus stand = 25 animations) and then blend between the current and desired animations.


Should I choose C++, C# or some other language for this project.

that would depend on the engine you use. if you build your own engine, you can use any language, as long as the resulting code runs fast enough.


a randomly generated sandbox open world game with realistic physics (using real mathematical formulas, tables and charts in real physics books and chemistry books) that has very little content at first and where players create the environment, and if people buy it

there are already many sandbox games with decent physics, and more than "very little" content, and modding capabilities. so your game wouldn't be very competitive, and thus would not likely sell well.


How much time do you believe or know I will need to achieve this if i begin learning now?

for a small triple AAA type title, figure at least 5 coders, 25 artists/level designers, a foley artist, a musician, 10 voice actors, and 3 to 5 years. that's once you have learned all those skills. foley and music might be one man-year each. voice acting might be one man-year total. so you have 30 coders and artists working for 5 years, and a musician, foley artist, and voice actors doing one man-year each. that adds up to 38 man-years, once you've learned the skills. [EDIT] did my math wrong: 30 coders and artists x 5 years + 3 man-years of audio work = 153 man-years, not 38. forgot that x5 years part.

i'm currently working solo on a project smaller than what you describe, and i already have 10,500 man-hours in it over the last 2.5 years (yes - i have no life! <g>). and i have 26 years experience as a gamedev.


and believe i can really make such a game because I was told Minecraft was made by 1 person, and Mount&blade was made by 2.

as stated above, those games were STARTED by small teams. To determine the rough man-hours in a game, multiply the number of coders and artists by the number of years in development. it would take one person AT LEAST that long to make that game - once they had the skills. longer actually, as this doesn't include any audio work.

take some time and check out the game engines. see which one you like the best. then implement a camera you can move around an empty scene. then add an animated skinned mesh to the scene. then make it play a sound effect when you hit a key. right there you'll have the basics. if you can draw an animated skinned mesh, simple meshes are easy to draw by comparison. if you can play a sound effect, you can do audio and music. then start making content, levels, and using additional capabilities of the engine (particles, physics, etc). pretty soon you'll get a feel for how hard it is to do stuff and how long it will take. then you can begin to set realistic goals for what is achievable on your own.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php

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Could someone currently studying a computer science college program tell me what books are included in the program, and tell me what the most popular computer science books are? Initially I want to choose the path of self education.

You can leverage the tools to create games quickly. You can get the pieces you don't have by working with collaborators or by buying/licensing them, and there are many resources available at very low cost or even free.

So with the caveat that you only have a small number of work-hours you can invest in the project --- rather than work-centuries --- you can build a game with similar elements using the tools."

Do you mean software like Blender and GIMP?

Also, I believe I'll be choosing UE4 and C++. What are the best first books for those?


what books are included in the program

all kinds.

linear algebra and discrete mathematics are probably the most useful, with analytic geometry and physics a close second. engineering mechanics: statics and dynamics is pretty useful too.

as you can see, many of these have little to do with writing code, yet they can have much to do with building games.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php


you typically have separate walk, run, and sprint animations for each direction

Actually, that would be very atypical. Simply changing the orientation of the entire model (the "facing" direction, completely independent of the animation sequence) is sufficient for most needs.

Please don't PM me with questions. Post them in the forums for everyone's benefit, and I can embarrass myself publicly.

You don't forget how to play when you grow old; you grow old when you forget how to play.


Simply changing the orientation of the entire model (the "facing" direction, completely independent of the animation sequence) is sufficient for most needs.

very true.

i was thinking in terms of caveman, which is a little different. caveman uses walk forward, run forward, sprint forward, side step left, side step left fast, side step right, side step right fast, backstep, and backstep fast. and then a creep forward, creep side step left, creep side step right, and a creep backstep, as i recall. diagonal movements use one of these.

Norm Barrows

Rockland Software Productions

"Building PC games since 1989"

rocklandsoftware.net

PLAY CAVEMAN NOW!

http://rocklandsoftware.net/beta.php

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